yeah was definitely not just about attitude or everything remotely close to being counterculture would be punk rock. american punk, hardcore, was very different than british punk rock as we didnt have as good a social safety net to fund it and the people. american hardcore was much more a social movement with bands rather than a social movement started by music and bands. that didnt come until later here in the u.s. american hardcore wasnt really influenced by british punk rock except in weird ways which is why the original bands dont sound anything alike. we couldnt get the records here but only see the pictures and read about the ideas and descriptions. the minute men didnt even know why people tuned there strings. they thought it was a personal preference like i just like my strings loose or what ever and it for sure did not start out as being political. everything got codified to a sound as people started to copy the guitar sounds of a few very original people, circle jerks im very much looking your way, but in the beginning nothing sounded similar and you could tell who were the musicians dabbling, ahem x, and who were part of the social movement. flipper sounds nothing like the screamers who sound nothing like the germs who sound nothing like gexa x who sound nothing like the minutemen who sound nothing like social distortion, who was a great musician but was also seriously part of the movement, who sounded nothing like christian death which all sounded nothing like glenn branca or soic youth and the no wave scene. black flag was incredibly original but after damaged everyone copied them, again im looking you way circle jerks, and he changed the sound immediately because of this. gregs a very smart person and very talented with i think loose nut being my fav album of theres. later everyone copied minor thtreat and that was just like the last nail in the coffin for that scene along with a bunch of other factors and they being intelligent enough to realize this started fugazi and revolution summer to keep there thing going and successfully reached new heights on there own terms. the only factor the ramones had on this music was speed which is why they dont get cited by a lot of these bands as influences. they were more of a british thing despite being american
