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Moztradamus? :)
LOL

Lol quite possibly Quando!

Ive studied Nostradamus and he was NEVER WRONG ! people can twist his meanings ect in any way they want!

EDITED
Ive said all I have 2 say about moz years ago, not repeating it all.

And I was rite about miss Young 2 ! yes I was !!!!!

Take care ! :thumb:
 
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Lol quite possibly Quando!

Ive studied Nostradamus and he was NEVER WRONG ! people can twist his meanings ect in any way they want!

EDITED
Ive said all I have 2 say about moz years ago, not repeating it all.

And I was rite about miss Young 2 ! yes I was !!!!!

Take care ! :thumb:

I will MIDNITE, and you!
Thank you. :thumb:
 
Great idea this "study group" and I'd also like to share my thoughts ... the passage "look at the blue of the sky ... what did you think before you were aware?" seems to me to deal with thinking and hesitating too much, always waiting for the perfect moment to start or do something although the time is already right (the sky is blue). And the moment when you know that something is true or right you ask yourself why you have hesitated so long, why you have had those thoughts that stopped you from acting.
 
i'm not sure whether the snail will lead us anywhere before we've finished reading the book, but i like the idea of it being weak and defenseless in addition to its slowness. Both ideas ironically undermine the overall image of this high gloss, strong and fast relay team, a human mercedes or porsche on eight legs.
Ezra, yes, i imagined Pound too. but we have to be patient when it comes to the names

As usually I didn't follow my own suggestions as a rule to be followed by others (I am a hypocrite, but not a boring one, I hope) and patience is a virtue for donkeys. Would like to be one anyway, because they are so cute and sweet.

Just found this passage: Isaac's smile began to dim. " Your impertinence is about to get you into serious trouble.
I know who you are - you are our little Ezra Pound, and I issue the most severe warning to you. Now get out. "
Page 79.
This is a bit too obvious and I can't neglect that the name Ezra refers to Ezra Pound.
Or is it misleading on purpose?
 
The second half of page 3 seems a bit strange and exaggerated to me. The author seems to put the blame for his hesitation and insecurity and resulting dissatisfaction only on society and its moral rules, just as it is impossible to act in a different way.
 
thank you for your thoughts on this beautiful passage. reminds me that there is still some homework to be done, as one anonymous was so kind to share his/her thoughts on this part too earlier on
yes, hesitation and waiting for the perfect moment (to do what?) i see here too. i wondered a little bit about the strict almost accusatory narrative voice in this passage. it sounds as if this voice is really blasting someone else for all these omissions. maybe it is the "will" which is mentioned earlier on talking to the "you" or "we" ("yet we discount the importance of our will to appreciate others because it is said to be a nothingness, or unwanted, or dangerously unsuspected"). I read the passage as an inner dialogue between will and ego, or in freudian terms, the id and the (super)-ego with the "will" eventually having been given a voice
Waiting for the perfect moment to do whatever you'd like to do I guess. And yes, interesting what you write and I think you are right: also in this passage the voice is almost accusatory - similar to what I thought about page 3.
 
yes, that's right, as if erotic suppression is demanded by our institutions: "schooled", "constitutional frigidity".
so the narrative voice is taking sides with the four boys who can compliment each other on their physical beauty without feeling ashamed. so the voice is kind of wooing (the reader?) to accept sexual interest of others and reply to it in time. i think there is a shift in the voice, this kind of accusatory wooing wasn't there before.

Jesus lanterns, never realized there were so many hidden layers in there. I missed a lot of that. Thanks.
What strikes me is the different tones in describing " his " heroes, which they are to a certain degree.
Lovingly, with some kind details, erotically, but at the same time with a distanced view, like satirizing them and in doing so quite funny. Pompous and arrogant but in a strange way entertaining, for me. Others would say overwritten but it was done on purpose and therefore creating that same distance and strange angle.
I like it, it is like an literary experiment in novel writing. It's different from any other novel.

From page 1 there is the hidden message there will not be a "forever happily ever after" ending. Just as he predicted it in the flaptext at the backside.
This strange, ever changing view on his characters is dominant throughout the book.
Just as you start identifying to a certain degree with any of his characters in the novel, be it good or bad, the view and tone changes again. He is playing some literary game here with his characters, which is a prerogative to the writer of course cause he invented them in the first place.
Sometimes there is a fatalist, I told you so undertone.
Enjoying it a lot so far, the mistifying, puzzling bits, although it did get me thinking about where all this would lead to.
The more mistifying it gets, the more there is a chance the unravelling of the mistery would dissapoint. With all misleading indications, maybe going nowhere.
He likes to play with his readers as much as with his audiences during concerts.
 
someone else needs to write moz a letter to tell him to join, as i am no longer interested in having him as my study buddy, i dont care what blazer he's wearing either
 
someone else needs to write moz a letter to tell him to join, as i am no longer interested in having him as my study buddy, i dont care what blazer he's wearing either

OMG, Holy Moz(es), Rifke, are you all right?? :(
I hope you are not getting depressed in any way?
This is so not-you !
I know your determination, but you sound so dissapointed.
I always thought the idea amused you as much and you were having secret giggles without anyone else seeing or noticing it.
What can I do to cheer you up?
I could send you some high quality giggling stuff !
I AM from Holland, you know. :D
 
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OMG, Holy Moz(es), Rifke, are you all right?? :(
I hope you are not getting depressed in any way?
This is so not-you !
I know your determination, but you sound so dissapointed.
I always thought the idea amused you as much and you were having secret giggles without anyone else seeing or noticing it.
What can I do to cheer you up?
I could send you some high quality giggling stuff !
I AM from Holland, you know. :D
it did amuse me. everything i come up with always amuses me :(
*sigh* im just feeling a bit out of sorts and disillusioned. it happens every now and again. and every time it does i try to develop some resolve like: this is silly, why am i, whom the gods love, fawning over some singer as though he's better than me? i need to get some self respect.but then i catch sight of him looking beguiling in some marvellous blazer and am back where i started. *sigh*
also we have high quality giggling stuff where i live too. i dont care for giggling stuff, though. or giggling, for that matter. :(
 
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it did amuse me. everything i come up with always amuses me :(
*sigh* im just feeling a bit out of sorts and disillusioned. it happens every now and again. and every time it does i try to develop some resolve like: this is silly, why am i, whom the gods love, fawning over some singer as though he's better than me? i need to get some self respect.but then i catch sight of him looking beguiling in some marvellous blazer and am back where i started. *sigh*
also we have high quality giggling stuff where i live too. i dont care for giggling stuff, though. or giggling, for that matter. :(

" this is silly, why am i, whom the gods love, fawning over some singer as though he's better than me? i need to get some self respect ".
You do realize, he IS not better than you ?
The fawning bit is okay, well occasionally!

Don't think about getting self-respect.
You will get it in a indirect way by not thinking how to acquire it.
About your disillusionment, remember what Moz said: Nothing really matters.
So why should you or I, or anyone, for that matter see this as anything remotely negative or depressing?
I see it, in a way as liberating, cause you can do anything, be flimsy, silly, do crazy stuff like getting out the house, walking through the park or get a haircut, buy new cloths, lipstick, make a drawing, start playing drums (I sense there is a drummer girl in you!).
If you are disillusioned but you do these things, if you're still disillusioned it makes no difference but there is a chance you suddenly realize that feeling is gone.
I always thought you had, very privately laughs at things you noticed within social codes and behaviour of people.
At least your descriptions had a very funny bit to it.
Cheers Rifke :thumb:
 
yes, the marital thing thrusts itself upon the reader several times.

maybe it hints to another theme which is introduced in the first four pages, namely that of an ideal state of union between men, a kind of brotherhood, like in a band, based on a common goal (winning) and physical strength.

it's a better alternative to the ordinary marriage, which, according to the text, is based on weaknesses of the partners, thus not to be desired in the long run

so this team is kind of admirably described as an ideal of how people can live and work together

first time i read the book, i was reminded of aristophanes' spherical human beings as mentioned in plato's symposion. in this myth the original humans were round and made up of two individuals, happily rolling through the world, and very strong too, so that they dared to break their way through to the gods in heaven. as a punishment they were cut in two halves, today's humans, and always looking for their original lover in order to restore the original condition, the beginning of eroticism

Like Unckeskinny, who says his wife completes him.

The opinion about the inferiority of the marriage with a woman made me remember something I read about some ancient greeks, who used to think in that way.

I think this could be considered a discrimination. If we understand a man who prefers to be in a marital union with a man, I can't think why those men wouldn't tolerate a man who choses to be married with a woman as the best option for him.

There is not ordinary marriage against super marriage. There is a marriage for each person. Or not.
 
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Yes indeed, another hint. Good one Ketamine Sun!
But, all these names are there just because he likes those names?
Referring to persons, in music, and the written word.
It could be, I guess. :rolleyes:
 
"List of the Lost is the reality of what is true battling against what is permitted to be true".

If to be true is only that what is permitted to be true, permitted by who? Society? There is an existing kind of true that is NOT permitted to be true but still exists? And L of the L is THAT true battling against reality? So L of the L is reality although it is fiction.

As far as I've read, I suspect this short novel (or "nivola", as Unamuno called them), reflects the reality of the true feelings, thoughts, theories and doubts of the author. Maybe this fiction is more about the mind and soul of Morrissey, his desires, frustrations, the reality of his own life and the life of others, colliding with social and moral values of the time this fiction takes place. Autobiography, on the other hand, is more about facts, dates, people, dialogues, interactions, etc. At this point I realize his two books are complementary and together they can help us to know and understand better the author and his lyrics. Better late than never.
 
As far as I've read, I suspect this short novel (or "nivola", as Unamuno called them), reflects the reality of the true feelings, thoughts, theories and doubts of the author. Maybe this fiction is more about the mind and soul of Morrissey, his desires, frustrations, the reality of his own life and the life of others, colliding with social and moral values of the time this fiction takes place. Autobiography, on the other hand, is more about facts, dates, people, dialogues, interactions, etc. At this point I realize his two books are complementary and together they can help us to know and understand better the author and his lyrics. Better late than never.

True................ so very true.

Ive not "read" the whole novel as yet, been waiting for the audio version 2 come out, the wait is of course, part of the best thing, but this Is verging on the ridiculous now!!!!!!!!!!!!

But what someone writes in there novels ect be it fiction or fact, Is part of who you are, you express and give up and surrender a part of yourself within the words.
 
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