Bernard Sumner (New Order) on Morrissey

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...e-hated-work-and-normality-1.3952803?mode=amp

Excerpt:
Did Johnny broach the subject of his former bandmate, Morrissey, and his increasingly questionable endorsements of a far-right fringe party called For Britain?

“I think we questioned his dubious politics,” Sumner answers. “He has become a bit toxic, hasn’t he? The world has gone a bit like that at the moment. We were only discussing this at dinner last night. It’s gone a bit pear-shaped. These are very strange times and a lot of things don’t seem to make sense. We’ve got Brexit in the UK. I’m not a fan. Obviously you’ve got Mr Trump. I find it difficult to call him President Trump. Let’s call him Resident Trump.”

 

[StalinsPipe]

The US supplied Russia with much of its weaponry to fight. Imagine if they hadn't.

Germany would have had a European Empire.

(A bit like what they're trying to do now with the EU, which we all know is tacitly run by Germany).

Lend lease helped, but it was by no means the determining factor. The USSR had land mass, people power and resources on its side.

Oh look, another far-righter trotting out some trope about the EU being a German empire. Reel, you talk absolute nonsense. Stop watching so many YouTube conspiracy videos and read some books by actual historians once in a while. Go and get a degree or something if you want to study history properly, rather than reading Wiki articles. Learn to research and read properly.

 

[Irish blood Irish heart]

No no no. I saw them earlier in July and they were brilliant. We'll never hear Ian again but I think Barney and band do the JD songs justice, or as well as anyone could reasonably expect. That concert is my fav so far this year, even better than The Cure. Gary Numan in September, yes!!!
John Grant's concert last night was brilliant too.

I’ve never seen New Order live but I do put one their albums on now and again, especially if I’m in the mood for something shallow and meaningless

 

[ThePoliticalRevolution]

The last New Order album had some great songs like Restless. Here is the extended 12" version which is even better. The start is very Johnny Marr-ish from his Electronic days. Brilliant and well worth a listen.

THIS IS A MASTERPIECE.

 

[SuedeMoz]

Sorry, haven't read all the posts in this thread. However, the article mentions New Orders live album: "New Order + Liam Gillick: So it goes." Didn't know about it prior but been listening to it on Spotify ... it's really quite good. Nicely reimaged versions of their songs... more subtle changes than drastic but overall very well done.

 

[reelfountain]

Lend lease helped, but it was by no means the determining factor. The USSR had land mass, people power and resources on its side.

Oh look, another far-righter trotting out some trope about the EU being a German empire. Reel, you talk absolute nonsense. Stop watching so many YouTube conspiracy videos and read some books by actual historians once in a while. Go and get a degree or something if you want to study history properly, rather than reading Wiki articles. Learn to research and read properly.

Unis are no more than dumbed-down businesses these days, so forget the degree idea. Oh, and everyone working there is left wing which means mandatory toxic identity-victim politics and no balance.

And I'm not far right - I'm nothing. I'm cynical and questioning of all politics. The cappuccino capitalism that many trendy lefties admire and play a part in is far-right as far as I'm concerned.

I don't watch conspiracy stuff online - most of it is wacky rubbish. I do know however that official history is written by the victors. Noam Chomsky said that all war propaganda is lies and should not be in the history books as fact. People forget that. There are some strands of old-school leftism I do admire. the Marxists who understand that the free movement of people is a capitalist strategy to make the rich richer, for example. They've got their heads screwed on. So have leftists who understand the EU is about giving more power to the elite.

I do read and I always have. Currently I'm reading AJP Taylor's 'Origins of the Second World War' which I'm finding highly stimulating. He cuts through the bullshit and understands that Hitler is no more evil than any leader in any war. All have to kill. All break the rules. The whole game is basically evil. In our hysterical times it reads as quite controversial. Hitler gets all the bad press because he lost. The war crimes of Russia, UK and the US are never even discussed.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Are you asking if I wished Germany had won and taken over Europe as a German empire? Well, I may still find out what that is like. The EU (which everyone knows is tacitly run by Germany) are currently trying to complete this very imperial project (and have been since the 50s). The British public voted out of this fascist catastrophe but two years on our exit has still not been delivered. So... who knows, in effect the swastika may fly again...

You were talking about WW2 ? no?

Then I was taking about the Nazis not the Germans, there is a difference, but you knew that.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Compared to the terrifying dark mastery of Joy Division, New Order are pretty crap.

Well I wouldn’t say they’re crap, but I wouldn’t compare the two, they are totally different. Ian had that wonderful rare illness which is called... being a true artist.

 

[reelfountain]

Well I wouldn’t say they’re crap, but I wouldn’t compare the two, they are totally different. Ian had that wonderful rare illness which is called... being a true artist.

I agree. I like to think of them as separate entities. Because if you put the two together, especially lyrically, you wonder if you should laugh or cry.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

The last New Order album had some great songs like Restless. Here is the extended 12" version which is even better. The start is very Johnny Marr-ish from his Electronic days. Brilliant and well worth a listen.

It may be Restless but it doesn’t move me.

Thanks for trying though.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

He may be widely credited but it's innacurate. Ian Curtis introduced him to Kraftwerk.

My knowledge of musical history and culture is second to none.

Not as good as mine

 

[reelfountain]

Not as good as mine

Naturally not, school of psychobilly rock'n'roll graduate.

 

[StalinsPipe]

Unis are no more than dumbed-down businesses these days, so forget the degree idea. Oh, and everyone working there is left wing which means mandatory toxic identity-victim politics and no balance.

And I'm not far right - I'm nothing. I'm cynical and questioning of all politics.


I do read and I always have. Currently I'm reading AJP Taylor's 'Origins of the 2nd World War' which I'm finding highly stimulating. He cuts through the bullshit and understands that Hitler is no more evil than any leader in any war. All have to kill. All break the rules. The whole game is basically evil. In our hysterical times it reads as quite controversial.

What a surprise you believe some nonsense conspiracy theory about universities. Can definitely tell you have never stepped foot in one, let alone been in a university lecture on a history and/or politics course. I can certainly tell you're getting your information from incredibly biased sources.

I personally don't agree with Taylor's thesis at all: while it's an excellent book, Taylor is a revisionist who ultimately let Hitler get away with it by seeing him as being like any other western leader. The idea that Hitler didn't want war and it was an unavoidable consequence is, in my opinion based on my reading of Richard J. Evans, Ian Kershaw, William L Shirer etc, etc, etc. Hitler wanted war and he made this quite clear early in his political career. Everything Hitler did in his foreign policy was geared towards German expansion and the eradication of his perceived enemies, both home and abroad (Jews, the Catholic church, leftists, old conservatives, "undesirables" etc.)

I mean, AJP Taylor is a respected historian, despite the disagreements with him, but you are an utter lunatic. It's clear, just using simple inference, that you have sympathy with Hitler. Plus, you compare the modern EU, a democratic body, created for trade and political alignment of liberal nations, which is formed of and headed by democratic nations, to the Third Reich, which started the worst war in history, which led to the deaths of 50 million people and committed genocide against 11 million people - 6 million of those being Jews. You really are just an absolute fringe lunatic.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

What a surprise you believe some nonsense conspiracy theory about universities. Can definitely tell you have never stepped foot in one, let alone been in a university lecture on a history and/or politics course. I can certainly tell you're getting your information from incredibly biased sources.

I personally don't agree with Taylor's thesis at all: while it's an excellent book, Taylor is a revisionist who ultimately let Hitler get away with it by seeing him as being like any other western leader. The idea that Hitler didn't want war and it was an unavoidable consequence is, in my opinion based on my reading of Richard J. Evans, Ian Kershaw, William L Shirer etc, etc, etc. Hitler wanted war and he made this quite clear early in his political career. Everything Hitler did in his foreign policy was geared towards German expansion and the eradication of his perceived enemies, both home and abroad (Jews, the Catholic church, leftists, old conservatives, "undesirables" etc.)

I mean, AJP Taylor is a respected historian, despite the disagreements with him, but you are an utter lunatic. It's clear, just using simple inference, that you have sympathy with Hitler. Plus, you compare the modern EU, a democratic body, created for trade and political alignment of liberal nations, which is formed of and headed by democratic nations, to the Third Reich, which started the worst war in history, which led to the deaths of 50 million people and committed genocide against 11 million people - 6 million of those being Jews. You really are just an absolute fringe lunatic.

Universities are indocrinating breeding grounds for the idiot. I still remember with loathing the Cultural Studies lecture I had to sit through discussing the political significance of black hair.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

What a surprise you believe some nonsense conspiracy theory about universities. Can definitely tell you have never stepped foot in one, let alone been in a university lecture on a history and/or politics course. I can certainly tell you're getting your information from incredibly biased sources.

I personally don't agree with Taylor's thesis at all: while it's an excellent book, Taylor is a revisionist who ultimately let Hitler get away with it by seeing him as being like any other western leader. The idea that Hitler didn't want war and it was an unavoidable consequence is, in my opinion based on my reading of Richard J. Evans, Ian Kershaw, William L Shirer etc, etc, etc. Hitler wanted war and he made this quite clear early in his political career. Everything Hitler did in his foreign policy was geared towards German expansion and the eradication of his perceived enemies, both home and abroad (Jews, the Catholic church, leftists, old conservatives, "undesirables" etc.)

I mean, AJP Taylor is a respected historian, despite the disagreements with him, but you are an utter lunatic. It's clear, just using simple inference, that you have sympathy with Hitler. Plus, you compare the modern EU, a democratic body, created for trade and political alignment of liberal nations, which is formed of and headed by democratic nations, to the Third Reich, which started the worst war in history, which led to the deaths of 50 million people and committed genocide against 11 million people - 6 million of those being Jews. You really are just an absolute fringe lunatic.

"the modern EU, a democratic body". Funny.

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/6055750650001/This-Week-Andrew-Neil-slams-new-EU-Commission-leaders

 

[Anonymous]

"Getting Away with It" was the first single by the band Electronic, which comprised Bernard Sumner of New Order, ex-Smiths guitarist Johnny Marr, and guesting vocalist Neil Tennant of Pet Shop Boys. It was first released in 1989.

Is it true that "Getting Away with It" was a dig at Morrissey? Can an anyone confirm this? Maybe this was Johnny Marr, Bernard Sumner and Neil Tennant's way of getting back at Morrissey and having a subtle dig at him. It is really upsetting if true.

It seems that these conflicts are long standing to do with Morrissey and Manchester's indie rock scene. However, they have only really become more prominent in recent times. It might just be jealousy. I'm aware that Neil Tennant isn't really part of Manchester's indie music scene.

 

[vegan cro spirit 555]

What a surprise you believe some nonsense conspiracy theory about universities. Can definitely tell you have never stepped foot in one, let alone been in a university lecture on a history and/or politics course. I can certainly tell you're getting your information from incredibly biased sources.

I personally don't agree with Taylor's thesis at all: while it's an excellent book, Taylor is a revisionist who ultimately let Hitler get away with it by seeing him as being like any other western leader. The idea that Hitler didn't want war and it was an unavoidable consequence is, in my opinion based on my reading of Richard J. Evans, Ian Kershaw, William L Shirer etc, etc, etc. Hitler wanted war and he made this quite clear early in his political career. Everything Hitler did in his foreign policy was geared towards German expansion and the eradication of his perceived enemies, both home and abroad (Jews, the Catholic church, leftists, old conservatives, "undesirables" etc.)

I mean, AJP Taylor is a respected historian, despite the disagreements with him, but you are an utter lunatic. It's clear, just using simple inference, that you have sympathy with Hitler. Plus, you compare the modern EU, a democratic body, created for trade and political alignment of liberal nations, which is formed of and headed by democratic nations, to the Third Reich, which started the worst war in history, which led to the deaths of 50 million people and committed genocide against 11 million people - 6 million of those being Jews. You really are just an absolute fringe lunatic.

Shirer was redder than a tomato.

 

[StalinsPipe]

Universities are indocrinating breeding grounds for the idiot. I still remember with loathing the Cultural Studies lecture I had to sit through discussing the political significance of black hair.

Why did you take cultural studies then? Why didn't you do another course? I'm sorry but you can't base sweeping statements about every university on a single anecdote.

 

[StalinsPipe]

"the modern EU, a democratic body". Funny.

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/6055750650001/This-Week-Andrew-Neil-slams-new-EU-Commission-leaders

Every EU commissioner is elected by the EU Parliament, and every member of the EU Parliament is elected by us. The commissioners also have to be approved by Parliament again in October.

 

[vegan cro spirit 555]

"the MODERN EU, a DEMOCRATIC BODY"?????

WTF???

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Why did you take cultural studies then? Why didn't you do another course? I'm sorry but you can't base sweeping statements about every university on a single anecdote.

Ere...out of my choices, it was the only one that would take me.......when i discovered it was shit, I cba changing course and making new friends........I thought the shitness of the course was balanced by the ability to go into London and go clubbing/gigging/boozing.