Boz in Winter 2011 edition of Total Guitar magazine

A) Saying Jesse's best efforts are better than Alain or Boz's worst is a moot point. Jesse has been around 7 years...do you know how many songs he has in the top 50 fan voted Morrissey solo songs? Zero. Do you know how many Alain and Boz have from their first 5 years with Morrissey? Twenty four. We can't count 7 years because of the wilderness years, however, if you count 7 non-consecutive years, then they have 32 of the Top 50 Morrissey songs in their first 7 years with him. That is all that needs to be said. He is simply outclassed and not worthy to be in the band. His very presence and participation in any concert or album immediately lowers the quality of it.

B) You can't recognize this? It sounds almost EXACTLY the same...


The whole "he's much better than Alain on Smiths songs" claim is totally baseless. Jesse can't even play Alain or Boz's songs properly (see 'You're The One For Me, Fatty" and "Reader Meet Author"), what makes anyone think he can pull off Smiths songs better than Alain? Hell, how can anyone even make sense out of that distorted jumbled mess he plays anyway? There is a reason they have his volume turned down so low, you know...psst, it's because he sucks.

If he's so poor, how did he get in the band?
 
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If he's so poor, how did he get in the band?

Oh come on, even I can answer that one. He got in because he's easy for Moz to boss around (the same reason Boz has stayed so long), and because Morrissey fancied him and had eroticised the prospect of having a "real Mexican" in the band. Even Morrissey knows that Jesse's playing is piss-poor - and judging by the heinous "Aunt Mabel" lyric, he can't even work up the energy to be bothered about it. I think he's given up artistically, and he doesn't care who knows it, because his back catalogue will always buy him a certain core audience and a certain respect.
 
Oh come on, even I can answer that one. He got in because he's easy for Moz to boss around (the same reason Boz has stayed so long), and because Morrissey fancied him and had eroticised the prospect of having a "real Mexican" in the band. Even Morrissey knows that Jesse's playing is piss-poor - and judging by the heinous "Aunt Mabel" lyric, he can't even work up the energy to be bothered about it. I think he's given up artistically, and he doesn't care who knows it, because his back catalogue will always buy him a certain core audience and a certain respect.
Oh OK, if you say so. I don't have access to Morrisseys thoughts so I wouldn't know that.
 
Oh come on, even I can answer that one. He got in because he's easy for Moz to boss around (the same reason Boz has stayed so long), and because Morrissey fancied him and had eroticised the prospect of having a "real Mexican" in the band. Even Morrissey knows that Jesse's playing is piss-poor - and judging by the heinous "Aunt Mabel" lyric, he can't even work up the energy to be bothered about it. I think he's given up artistically, and he doesn't care who knows it, because his back catalogue will always buy him a certain core audience and a certain respect.

Wow, that's harsh. Do you really believe that? He's in his fifties and a man who made a life; he won't sing about the problems of growing up any more, although those lyrics are the ones who mean the most to his younger fan base, because we are still captured in the rat race of life. I think his lines are getting less forward-pressing, naturally, and increasingly imbued with wisdom from a laid-back perspective. So what. He never claimed to make art FOR anybody, as far as I know, and I wouldn't expect him to. His approach, in my totally subjective opinion, was always quite egoistic, he just sang his life and people love it or not. A fake Morrissey who desperately tries to drag out past desires to remain the patron of the lonely would be.. fake. Let's face it, maybe he's not miserable anymore, maybe he's found his place in this world, and it shows in his lyrics and we can either accept and buy, or turn away.
My critique about a certain musical flatness remains untouched from this, though. There's plenty of great songwriters and producers out there, I wished he would use them.
 
Why would Boz say regarding Quarry that they hadn't played tracks from the album live when half of the record and or b-sides were played live on the 2002 tour?
 
Wow, that's harsh. Do you really believe that? He's in his fifties and a man who made a life; he won't sing about the problems of growing up any more, although those lyrics are the ones who mean the most to his younger fan base, because we are still captured in the rat race of life. I think his lines are getting less forward-pressing, naturally, and increasingly imbued with wisdom from a laid-back perspective. So what. He never claimed to make art FOR anybody, as far as I know, and I wouldn't expect him to. His approach, in my totally subjective opinion, was always quite egoistic, he just sang his life and people love it or not. A fake Morrissey who desperately tries to drag out past desires to remain the patron of the lonely would be.. fake. Let's face it, maybe he's not miserable anymore, maybe he's found his place in this world, and it shows in his lyrics and we can either accept and buy, or turn away.
My critique about a certain musical flatness remains untouched from this, though. There's plenty of great songwriters and producers out there, I wished he would use them.

Everything is perfect and beautiful about this post except:
My critique about a certain musical flatness remains untouched from this, though. There's plenty of great songwriters and producers out there, I wished he would use them.

Otherwise, right on point.
 
Wow, that's harsh. Do you really believe that? He's in his fifties and a man who made a life; he won't sing about the problems of growing up any more, although those lyrics are the ones who mean the most to his younger fan base, because we are still captured in the rat race of life. I think his lines are getting less forward-pressing, naturally, and increasingly imbued with wisdom from a laid-back perspective. So what. He never claimed to make art FOR anybody, as far as I know, and I wouldn't expect him to. His approach, in my totally subjective opinion, was always quite egoistic, he just sang his life and people love it or not. A fake Morrissey who desperately tries to drag out past desires to remain the patron of the lonely would be.. fake. Let's face it, maybe he's not miserable anymore, maybe he's found his place in this world, and it shows in his lyrics and we can either accept and buy, or turn away.
My critique about a certain musical flatness remains untouched from this, though. There's plenty of great songwriters and producers out there, I wished he would use them.
Well Done CrushingBore, a fine reasoned post, including the last paragraph.
 
Wow, that's harsh. Do you really believe that? He's in his fifties and a man who made a life; he won't sing about the problems of growing up any more, although those lyrics are the ones who mean the most to his younger fan base, because we are still captured in the rat race of life. I think his lines are getting less forward-pressing, naturally, and increasingly imbued with wisdom from a laid-back perspective. So what. He never claimed to make art FOR anybody, as far as I know, and I wouldn't expect him to. His approach, in my totally subjective opinion, was always quite egoistic, he just sang his life and people love it or not. A fake Morrissey who desperately tries to drag out past desires to remain the patron of the lonely would be.. fake. Let's face it, maybe he's not miserable anymore, maybe he's found his place in this world, and it shows in his lyrics and we can either accept and buy, or turn away.
My critique about a certain musical flatness remains untouched from this, though. There's plenty of great songwriters and producers out there, I wished he would use them.

I'm struggling to see how this relates to my post at all - where exactly did I say I expected him to write about 'growing up'? I would never want to see a middle-aged man writing adolescent angst for eternity and I never asked for that, it would be utterly insincere. I just think that if 'fat Aunt Mabel' is all he's got left, then he'd better hang up the mic. Morrissey's lyrics... 'increasingly imbued with wisdom'? What kind of wisdom is that? "Tongue against tongue and we've only just begun?". His lyrics have lost any remnant of the poetry, subtlety, detail and craftsmanship that they had even 7 years ago with Quarry. Come Back to Camden is a masterpiece and it has nothing whatsoever to do with adolescence. Now, he's just slamming together one line after the other. He doesn't give a shit. "People are the Same Everywhere" and "Art-Hounds" are old, repetitive 'moon/June' rubbish that would have made McCartney blush. Blaming this absolute lyrical bankruptcy on him 'finding his place in the world' is ridiculous.
 
Well Done CrushingBore, a fine reasoned post, including the last paragraph.

Yeah, except it had nothing whatsoever to do with the post that preceded it. Tell me Peterb, why do you bother asking questions when the only answer you'll consider is one that agrees with your view anyway?
 
I'm struggling to see how this relates to my post at all - where exactly did I say I expected him to write about 'growing up'? I would never want to see a middle-aged man writing adolescent angst for eternity and I never asked for that, it would be utterly insincere. I just think that if 'fat Aunt Mabel' is all he's got left, then he'd better hang up the mic. Morrissey's lyrics... 'increasingly imbued with wisdom'? What kind of wisdom is that? "Tongue against tongue and we've only just begun?". His lyrics have lost any remnant of the poetry, subtlety, detail and craftsmanship that they had even 7 years ago with Quarry. Come Back to Camden is a masterpiece and it has nothing whatsoever to do with adolescence. Now, he's just slamming together one line after the other. He doesn't give a shit. "People are the Same Everywhere" and "Art-Hounds" are old, repetitive 'moon/June' rubbish that would have made McCartney blush. Blaming this absolute lyrical bankruptcy on him 'finding his place in the world' is ridiculous.

If we are talking the quality of the lyrics, he had some less than perfect lines all throughout his career. It would have been an argument that he's scraping the barrel at those times too.

Your boyfriend, he
Went down on one knee
Well, could it be
He's only got one knee?

springs to mind. Quite possibly worst than moon/june.

In terms of being crude, is 'Let me get my hands on your mammary glands" any worse than 'Tongue against tongue, we've only just begun"? I don't know.

I don't think I need to mention the k.e.g.s either. You get my drift. :D
 
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I'm struggling to see how this relates to my post at all - where exactly did I say I expected him to write about 'growing up'? I would never want to see a middle-aged man writing adolescent angst for eternity and I never asked for that, it would be utterly insincere. I just think that if 'fat Aunt Mabel' is all he's got left, then he'd better hang up the mic. Morrissey's lyrics... 'increasingly imbued with wisdom'? What kind of wisdom is that? "Tongue against tongue and we've only just begun?". His lyrics have lost any remnant of the poetry, subtlety, detail and craftsmanship that they had even 7 years ago with Quarry. Come Back to Camden is a masterpiece and it has nothing whatsoever to do with adolescence. Now, he's just slamming together one line after the other. He doesn't give a shit. "People are the Same Everywhere" and "Art-Hounds" are old, repetitive 'moon/June' rubbish that would have made McCartney blush. Blaming this absolute lyrical bankruptcy on him 'finding his place in the world' is ridiculous.

Lyrical bankruptcy... given up artistically... But well I won't argue against this because it's a question of taste and personal preference anyway. Guess I'm lucky because I'm still growing into his work, it's not easy as a non-native speaker, and have yet a lot to discover, so I'm not that hungry on new songs, and should a new album fail to please me, it won't hit me that hard.
But I really have to defend that Mabel line, I see so very clearly what kind of people he's talking about. Sometimes rhyming like a savage beast is a stylistic device, smell-well-sell-hell-farewell and everything.
 
Yeah, except it had nothing whatsoever to do with the post that preceded it. Tell me Peterb, why do you bother asking questions when the only answer you'll consider is one that agrees with your view anyway?
Hi Amy, that isn't my intention. I do try to take on different views, it's just that on this one CrsuhingBores response seemed to be the most reasonable.
 
If we are talking the quality of the lyrics, he had some less than perfect lines all throughout his career. It would have been an argument that he's scraping the barrel at those times too.

Your boyfriend, he
Went down on one knee
Well, could it be
He's only got one knee?

springs to mind. Quite possibly worst than moon/june.

In terms of being crude, is 'Let me get my hands on your mammary glands" any worse than 'Tongue against tongue, we've only just begun"? I don't know.

I don't think I need to mention the k.e.g.s either. You get my drift. :D

I'm struggling to see how this relates to my post at all - where exactly did I say I expected him to write about 'growing up'? I would never want to see a middle-aged man writing adolescent angst for eternity and I never asked for that, it would be utterly insincere. I just think that if 'fat Aunt Mabel' is all he's got left, then he'd better hang up the mic. Morrissey's lyrics... 'increasingly imbued with wisdom'? What kind of wisdom is that? "Tongue against tongue and we've only just begun?". His lyrics have lost any remnant of the poetry, subtlety, detail and craftsmanship that they had even 7 years ago with Quarry. Come Back to Camden is a masterpiece and it has nothing whatsoever to do with adolescence. Now, he's just slamming together one line after the other. He doesn't give a shit. "People are the Same Everywhere" and "Art-Hounds" are old, repetitive 'moon/June' rubbish that would have made McCartney blush. Blaming this absolute lyrical bankruptcy on him 'finding his place in the world' is ridiculous.


Perhaps we should see some of your work, so we can better judge the credibility of those who are critical? The lyrics are still on par and as good as they've ever been. Maybe you expect too much? That would be your fault.
 
Perhaps we should see some of your work, so we can better judge the credibility of those who are critical? The lyrics are still on par and as good as they've ever been. Maybe you expect too much? That would be your fault.

:lbf: You seriously think any of the new songs could stand up, lyrically, next to Camden, or Now My Heart is Full, or Speedway? Lol!!!
Re: expecting too much - I expect a songwriter like Morrissey, who has built a career on his talent as a lyricist, to come up with something better than "Tongue against tongue...". That's not 'expecting too much' unless you've completely lost faith in him, or just haven't heard half his work.
 
If we are talking the quality of the lyrics, he had some less than perfect lines all throughout his career. It would have been an argument that he's scraping the barrel at those times too.

Your boyfriend, he
Went down on one knee
Well, could it be
He's only got one knee?

springs to mind. Quite possibly worst than moon/june.

In terms of being crude, is 'Let me get my hands on your mammary glands" any worse than 'Tongue against tongue, we've only just begun"? I don't know.

I don't think I need to mention the k.e.g.s either. You get my drift. :D

That's very true - but bear in mind that those lyrics come from Kill Uncle, the biggest dud album of his career. I think the 'mammary glands' line is brilliant.
 
That's very true - but bear in mind that those lyrics come from Kill Uncle, the biggest dud album of his career. I think the 'mammary glands' line is brilliant.

What is it about two tongues meeting line that you find so repellent?
 
A) Saying Jesse's best efforts are better than Alain or Boz's worst is a moot point. Jesse has been around 7 years...do you know how many songs he has in the top 50 fan voted Morrissey solo songs? Zero. Do you know how many Alain and Boz have from their first 5 years with Morrissey? Twenty four. We can't count 7 years because of the wilderness years, however, if you count 7 non-consecutive years, then they have 32 of the Top 50 Morrissey songs in their first 7 years with him. That is all that needs to be said. He is simply outclassed and not worthy to be in the band. His very presence and participation in any concert or album immediately lowers the quality of it.

B) You can't recognize this? It sounds almost EXACTLY the same...


The whole "he's much better than Alain on Smiths songs" claim is totally baseless. Jesse can't even play Alain or Boz's songs properly (see 'You're The One For Me, Fatty" and "Reader Meet Author"), what makes anyone think he can pull off Smiths songs better than Alain? Hell, how can anyone even make sense out of that distorted jumbled mess he plays anyway? There is a reason they have his volume turned down so low, you know...psst, it's because he sucks.


If you think I'm suggesting that Jesse is a better songwriter than Alan, you couldn't be more wrong.
Alan has written tons of brilliant songs for Morrissey, and Jesse hasn't written a single one. However, Alan has also written a considerable amount of rubbish over the years - remember he's responsible for the twin low points of the Morrissey back catalogue that are Roy's Keen and Dagenham Dave plus loads more which are scarcely any better. The best Jesse songs are easily better than Alain's worst (not a huge compliment to Jesse). It's not really a moot point either. If Jesse hadn't provided the fizzing energetic pop of In The Future, OK by Myself, and AYNIM, we'd presumably have had to settle for songs which are even worse than Alain's feeble duds like Father Must Be Killed, Far Off Places, and Good In Your Time.
But I maintain that it's a huge tragedy if Alain has indeed left the Morrissey song-writing fold for good. His best songs on YOR (Carol and Birthday) were wonderful pieces of music - among Morrissey's best ever songs. And I also maintain that if Alain isn't contributing to the new album (and neither is Stephen Street or any other 'external' songwriters) we could have Morrissey's worst ever album on our hands, musically and lyrically - yes folks, worse even than Quarry and Southpaw.
So, although I don't rate Jesse's song-writing highly, I certainly don't share your bizarre hatred of the man.
Also, I much prefer the current band's versions of the Smiths songs than the ones from the late 90s and early 00s. I Know It's Over sounded every bit as sublime as the original when I heard it at Brixton in the summer. The Alain Whyte era Smiths renditions always sounded a bit shambolic to me.
 
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What is it about two tongues meeting line that you find so repellent?

I just think it's crass phrasing, with no humour or subtlety. "Mammary glands" is sexually ambiguous, almost clinical and that's what makes it so funny - it's "Can i grab yer tits" in comically sterilised, Carry On Moz-speak. A bit like the "Ooh I SAY" part in "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others", which makes me laugh out loud.
 
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I just think it's crass phrasing, with no humour or subtlety. "Mammary glands" is sexually ambiguous, almost clinical and that's what makes it so funny - it's "Can i grab yer tits" in comically sterilised, Carry On Moz-speak. A bit like the "Ooh I SAY" part in "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others", which makes me laugh out loud.

I think your opinion is fairly crass. So much for opinions. Please share some of your poetry, since you avoided the question before, so we can better judge you, the critic. 'Now My Heart Is Full' and 'Speedway' have nothing on 'This Charming Man' or 'Still Ill', so now what? Do you see how silly you are? Morrissey is fine. You're not worthy to critique him, frankly, but you can share your blind opinion, I guess, just like every other pointless fool on the Internet. Carry on...
 
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