Does "Ambitious Outsiders" threaten child-rape?

[Uncleskinny]

To answer the title thread.

No, but the lyrics do threaten to irk Neil Young's lawyer. Listen to the first verse of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiKJQeG5E2o

Arf!!

 

[Mr Reynolds]

Although the media tried to demonize it through a few sensational cases, it's pretty common knowledge that deaths through MDMA toxicity are a pretty minor statistic. And I'd still argue that the kids targeted with cute-looking tablets were above school bus age.

More that all that I've always felt that Morrissey cares very little about the world of drugs (other than prescription ones). The grime of it isn't part of his romance of crime. Sunny, a great and sad song, was quite realistic about the effects.

But the theme Morrissey conjures here is exactly the same as might be found in an alarmist and shrill Daily Mail front page. The THREAT TO YOUR SMILING KIDS!!! He's riffing on that very fear. It reminds me in its tone of the Teenage Dad On His Estate - while YOU go out and work like a pack horse 'bringing it in you despise the smile on the face of the boy on his methadone'. Its that tension Moz likes to play with betwixt seemingly safe secure middle class family life and the 'dark feral forces' that circle around. In Maladjusted he sings 'jeer the lights of all safe and stable homes...but wonder what could peace of mind be like?' Morrissey isn't pronouncing his judgement on the issue of drugs or crime, he's just interested in writing the drama here. In the same way he can write from the perspective of a victim pupil in Headmaster Ritual and then from the side of a terrified teacher in The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils.

 

[Uncleskinny]

But the theme Morrissey conjures here is exactly the same as might be found in an alarmist and shrill Daily Mail front page. The THREAT TO YOUR SMILING KIDS!!! He's riffing on that very fear. It reminds me in its tone of the Teenage Dad On His Estate - while YOU go out and work like a pack horse 'bringing it in you despise the smile on the face of the boy on his methadone'. Its that tension Moz likes to play with betwixt seemingly safe secure middle class family life and the 'dark feral forces' that circle around. In Maladjusted he sings 'jeer the lights of all safe and stable homes...but wonder what could peace of mind be like?' Morrissey isn't pronouncing his judgement on the issue of drugs or crime, he's just interested in writing the drama here. In the same way he can write from the perspective of a victim pupil in Headmaster Ritual and then from the side of a terrified teacher in The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils.

You're just like Woodrow Wyatt - the Voice Of Reason.

P.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

You're just like Woodrow Wyatt - the Voice Of Reason.

P.

Now Peter, if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all!!!

 

[CrystalGeezer]

And in conclusion, in case anyone cares why I bother to reply at all, I'll offer a quote from a movie: "Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here."

At least I have the hope of making Christmas cards with Morrissey some day. Give me that at least.

 

[Dave]

In this thread we pick out ideas which support our beliefs and ignore those which don't, to the point of saying that Morrissey's own quotes about the song are to be ignored. hahahhaha

Next?

 

[Not Right in the Head]

At least I have the hope of making Christmas cards with Morrissey some day. Give me that at least.

Brilliant comeback, CG.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Brilliant comeback, CG.

Thanks!

 

[King Leer]

You debate convincingly, but I have to agree to disagree. Morrissey categorized the song as "dangerous", which a song about drug dealers would never be. Peddling dope to kids in schoolyards is like a cliched, antiquated social ill now.

I'm pretty convinced that the tedium and torpor of the drug world (don't forget how Morrissey regarded Rourke's heroin problem) would not be interesting enough for Morrissey to write a song about.

But the theme Morrissey conjures here is exactly the same as might be found in an alarmist and shrill Daily Mail front page. The THREAT TO YOUR SMILING KIDS!!! He's riffing on that very fear. It reminds me in its tone of the Teenage Dad On His Estate - while YOU go out and work like a pack horse 'bringing it in you despise the smile on the face of the boy on his methadone'. Its that tension Moz likes to play with betwixt seemingly safe secure middle class family life and the 'dark feral forces' that circle around. In Maladjusted he sings 'jeer the lights of all safe and stable homes...but wonder what could peace of mind be like?' Morrissey isn't pronouncing his judgement on the issue of drugs or crime, he's just interested in writing the drama here. In the same way he can write from the perspective of a victim pupil in Headmaster Ritual and then from the side of a terrified teacher in The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils.

 

[Not Right in the Head]

I'm pretty convinced that the tedium and torpor of the drug world (don't forget how Morrissey regarded Rourke's heroin problem) would not be interesting enough for Morrissey to write a song about.

Hold on--"Sunny," "Teenage Dad on His Estate," and others are on the phone and would like to have a word with you.

 

[King Leer]

I already mentioned Sunny, and yes Teenage(d) Dad applies, but they are about actual people that Morrissey knew, like many of his songs. Drugs are part of their portrait, but not his point of interest.

I'm talking about drugs as a social ill in general -- not dangerous, not interesting.

Hold on--"Sunny," "Teenage Dad on His Estate," and others are on the phone and would like to have a word with you.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

I already mentioned Sunny, and yes Teenage(d) Dad applies, but they are about actual people that Morrissey knew, like many of his songs. Drugs are part of their portrait, but not his point of interest.

I'm talking about drugs as a social ill in general -- not dangerous, not interesting.

An "Interesting Drug...tell the truth...it REALLY helped you!"

Check mate...knock your king down...

 

[CrystalGeezer]

An "Interesting Drug...tell the truth...it REALLY helped you!"

Check mate...knock your king down...

Isn't he being sarcastic? That's how I always heard it.

 

[rogue_rebellions]

Bolt-lock your doors
Alarm your cars
And still we move in closer
Every day
Top of the list
Is your smiling kids...

Your taxes paid, but
Police waylaid
And we knows
When the school bus
Comes and goes

I can see no very plausible interpretation for this song than that is a gay ("keeping the population down") man's threat of avenging himself on society via assaults upon children.

What are you on about? "keeping the population down" can easily mean killing another human being. Wow. How did you possibly get that? Typical...reading too heavily into lyrics and getting what you want out of it...in this case you were looking for a 'gay' connection

And how the HELL did you get child-rape out of those lyrics? My god. You're reading too heavily into it. Sort yourself out.

 

[King Leer]

Yeah, I forgot the inverted commas on "interesting" in my post.

Interesting Drug -- (Legal) happy pills or more likely e, which Morrissey once did as we know -- I wouldn't put either in them in the cateogry of heroin or crack (which you don't "take" anyway). E a social ill? Nah. Escape from social ills.

I wouldn't bet money on what Ambitious Outsiders is about, but I would bet money it's Not about dealers peddling to schoolbus kids. It's too mundane a theory in light of the lyrics, and again not "dangerous," as Morrissey categorized it. But if you ever get the chance to ask the Man, I'd be glad to be proven wrong.

An "Interesting Drug...tell the truth...it REALLY helped you!"

Check mate...knock your king down...

 

[Mr Reynolds]

Yeah, I forgot the inverted commas on "interesting" in my post.

Interesting Drug -- (Legal) happy pills or more likely e, which Morrissey once did as we know -- I wouldn't put either in them in the cateogry of heroin or crack (which you don't "take" anyway). E a social ill? Nah. Escape from social ills.

I wouldn't bet money on what Ambitious Outsiders is about, but I would bet money it's Not about dealers peddling to schoolbus kids. It's too mundane a theory in light of the lyrics, and again not "dangerous," as Morrissey categorized it. But if you ever get the chance to ask the Man, I'd be glad to be proven wrong.

Yes but...yes but...as I already illustrated with big coloured crayons and everything Moz is dramatizing the PERCEIVED 'evil' in taking drugs the like of Ecstacy - he doesn't debate the matter as 'VOICE OF AUTHOR' as to whether drugs = bad etc. So to recap - Moz is dramatising the nefarious darkness circling the suburban hedgerows that threaten to tear down Festive Road and its Daily Mail reading family bliss. From that perspective the corruption of their most precious innocents is EVERYTHING and the ultimate in DANGEROUS. To them - at the time it was written - Ecstacy was literally Issue from the Devil's Dumplings...

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

Yes but...yes but...as I already illustrated with big coloured crayons and everything Moz is dramatizing the PERCEIVED 'evil' in taking drugs the like of Ecstacy - he doesn't debate the matter as 'VOICE OF AUTHOR' as to whether drugs = bad etc. So to recap - Moz is dramatising the nefarious darkness circling the suburban hedgerows that threaten to tear down Festive Road and its Daily Mail reading family bliss. From that perspective the corruption of their most precious innocents is EVERYTHING and the ultimate in DANGEROUS. To them - at the time it was written - Ecstacy was literally Issue from the Devil's Dumplings...

Beautifully put, Mr Reynolds, but I still can't see anything that explicitly points to Ambitious Outsiders being about drug dealers. If we're talking about personal interpretation, then no amount of big coloured crayons is likely to divert someone from their own personal interpretation.

I tend to think if Morrissey was to write a song about predatory drug dealers, he would approach the subject in a relatively head-on fashion.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

I tend to think if Morrissey was to write a song about predatory drug dealers, he would approach the subject in a relatively head-on fashion.

Well, I think 'Ambitious Outsiders' IS pretty head on. How much MORE head on does it need to be? 'Ambitious Drug Dealers'?

'First on the list, Is your smiling kids,
And we dealers knows when the school bus comes and goes'

'Bolt lock your doors, alarm your cars,
From us dealers and our druggie scars...'

I mean...really...

 

[ray_afraid]

In this thread we pick out ideas which support our beliefs and ignore those which don't, to the point of saying that Morrissey's own quotes about the song are to be ignored. hahahhaha

Next?

This seems to happen so often here with everything from song meanings to Mozzers sexuality.
Does nobody here read, watch or listen to interviews with the man?

 

[CrystalGeezer]

This seems to happen so often here with everything from song meanings to Mozzers sexuality.
Does nobody here read, watch or listen to interviews with the man?

There's an interview somewhere where he says he doesn't like the "police state" that he lived in, something about signs telling you to do this and do that. I always thought he meant reading signs like a crazy person, not actual signs and actually hating police men. I think it was during the maladjusted era, it;s the same interview I think where he talks about driving around Los Angeles and watching the people. I love that. I mean I love that he does that.