"Hand in Glove" named one of NME's "20 Best Love Songs of All-time"

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Excerpt:

The Smiths, ‘Hand In Glove’ (1983)

Remember your first relationship? Very “us versus the world”, wasn’t it? That spirit is bottled by this song, which Moz and Marr wrote after their second gig as The Smiths.

Gooiest moment: “Hand in glove I’ll stake my claim / I’ll fight to my last breath.”
 

Tim Emm

New Member
My first relationship was 'us and the world'. We were both over 30, so had a firmly firm concept of ourselves. There was this thing called the world. There was this thing called us. It wasn't so much opposition as difference. It's not as though we got much approval from fellow deviants either. We were just self-contained.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
The love song that dare not speak its name.

The nme can .....


Kiss my shades !!!

:cool:
 

Mike Rourke

Well-Known Member
Slowly, but surely, the music press is becoming more positive. Again.
Not really - they've always remained super-positive about The Smiths. If anything, the more unpleasant Morrissey is perceived to have become, the more people rave about The Smiths.
I think there was even a t-shirt doing the rounds not long ago which said, 'Hate Morrissey, love The Smiths'?
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Not really - they've always remained super-positive about The Smiths. If anything, the more unpleasant Morrissey is perceived to have become, the more people rave about The Smiths.
I think there was even a t-shirt doing the rounds not long ago which said, 'Hate Morrissey, love The Smiths'?

One would think that.

But they’re using the lyrics here, which shows that they are at least acknowledging that there was a singer/writer going by the name of Morrissey in the band.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
Not really - they've always remained super-positive about The Smiths. If anything, the more unpleasant Morrissey is perceived to have become, the more people rave about The Smiths.
I think there was even a t-shirt doing the rounds not long ago which said, 'Hate Morrissey, love The Smiths'?
I think it was 2002 when the NME voted The Smiths the greatest band of all time. It anticipated a new warmth for Morrissey too—he was coming towards the end of his fist spell as persona non grata.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
I liked those early songs. Don't shout at me, but I feel Marr became lazy towards the end. There was that initial period where there was a flurry of inventiveness and I felt they should have become more experimental..in the vein of Wonderful Woman. The Smiths could have been a lot lot deeper for me. Morrissey could have dropped the humour and been totally down the line. That's the amazing thing about The Smiths. They could have gone wherever they wanted to. Our loss.
Marr did become lazy at the end. It must’ve took him all of ten seconds to come up with Death at One’s Elbow.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I liked those early songs. Don't shout at me, but I feel Marr became lazy towards the end. There was that initial period where there was a flurry of inventiveness and I felt they should have become more experimental..

I think Johnny felt that he was to some degree being ‘experimental’ by
using less guitar ‘jangly guitar’ on Strangeways.

in the vein of Wonderful Woman.

Was Viva Hate for you more experimental? Is that what you mean?

The Smiths could have been a lot lot deeper for me.

You mean darker? I think Morrissey’s humor combined with the subject matter and his lyrics against Marr’s backing made it more interesting and palatable to new listeners, drawing them in. Sometimes you can’t have it dark without the light for contrast
and balance, yin/yang. Without that balance the dark just becomes depressing like Joy Division or even (to me) early Dylan.


Morrissey could have dropped the humour and been totally down the line

You mean like the way he mostly writes now?

. That's the amazing thing about The Smiths. They could have gone wherever they wanted to.

I don’t know where that would be, unless they went totally weird and uncommercial. I mean they couldn’t go anywhere, there was limitations especially with Joyce who was not a jazz player as just one example.

Our loss.

I think they were completely original and daring, especially for the time.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I must say, I still think its rather ungracious of Johnny. to be so lukewarm to Morrissey. All he ever had to say was that he still loves Morrissey but not what he stands for. I still can't get my head around how Johnny could have been so close to Morrissey, such a charismatic figure, and yet dismiss him so lightly. It doesn't do Johnny any favours.

Well it does put Marr in a better position in regards to the media,
and he does have bills to pay.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Marr did become lazy at the end. It must’ve took him all of ten seconds to come up with Death at One’s Elbow.

He may have just said yes to it simply because Morrissey wanted to use it.

I really don’t see Marr’s writing on Strangeways being of any less quality when compared to the prior recordings. The vibe may have been different and maybe if one is sensitive enough they can pick up on that, but you need to remember
how much stress and non-music duties were on his shoulders while
writing, playing, and finishing that record. Not to say that recording that album was a bad time according to the band.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
I must say, I still think its rather ungracious of Johnny. to be so lukewarm to Morrissey. All he ever had to say was that he still loves Morrissey but not what he stands for. I still can't get my head around how Johnny could have been so close to Morrissey, such a charismatic figure, and yet dismiss him so lightly. It doesn't do Johnny any favours.
To me, Johnny often sounds wounded when the topic of Moz comes up. He has implied, in the past, that Moz is ignoring him. "How long can you try with a person and get nothing back?". "It's a shame that the band can't be friends", etc. Then, feeling ignored, he snipes. It's a pattern. I miss him / I don't care / I miss him / I don't care. You can see it in every interview. God knows what's going on behind the scenes.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I just feel its very remiss of the press to paint Johnny in a holier than thou light simply because Morrissey was supposed to be the 'difficukt' one. They could both have been as bad as each other.

Well the music papers, just like politicians, need an enemy, even if they have to create one. It pays the bills.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
I remember when I went up to Andy, Mikes, Morrisseys and Marr's houses in the 90s to take my demo tape. Marr had a basketball hoop in his front drive and Angie dismissed me rather uncordially. I didn't like Johnny so much after that. .
She did the same to me, at a gig. She think’s we are royal pains in the arse. She is correct.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I remember when I went up to Andy, Mikes, Morrisseys and Marr's houses in the 90s to take my demo tape. Marr had a basketball hoop in his front drive and Angie dismissed me rather uncordially. I didn't like Johnny so much after that. .

You should have went to Johnnys with a basketball to shoot some hoops with him, with your strategy of letting him win, and once he felt bad for you, you could then slip him your demo, out of guilt, he probably would have given it a listen.
 

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