Imperfect List

Thewlis

Junior Member
We all come in at different times and its impact is specific to that time. In a way it becomes timeless. Given this time I document in my blog. I wonder how my perception of this time would have been changed if the current statements were known at the time to me. And how is this current climate shaping new fans.

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/entries/1925-16-clumsy-and-shy
Great to read! I was 14 when The Queen is Dead came out, and yes, I felt the same about Strangeways and Viva Hate s you did. A great time to discover such great music and, in hindsight, some of the best popular music ever recorded.
In the late 80s I also bought a book, Morrissey in His Own Words, full of profound, and sometimes, silly quotes, so from an early age I knew he was a bit of an oddball character, with sometimes strange views. But then that's all in the music too, isn't it?
It certainly hasn't hindered my appreciation of the music, if possible only enhanced it.
 

Thewlis

Junior Member
I don't think you understand where I am coming from really, but that's ok.
Of course, I also rank The Smiths as the best band in the history of music, and Morrissey until the mid-90s as a close second.
Of course that's enough for me too, I would not be here otherwise, and I would not be as passionate as I am after all these years.
And yes, there are are some decent songs in every album (and b-sides) since 2004, but on the whole his music and lyrics speak to me less and less as time goes by.
Yes, partly because I have changed but also undoubtedly because the songs are simply not as good as they used to be.
And this, coupled with the increasingly frequent statements/rants which I and most people find it impossible to relate to and impossible to align with is what has led to me feeling the way I do.
Clear, so you feel he should keep the frequency down and just say idiotic things once in a while like in the good old days :)
I honestly don't think he has said anything new in recent months that could have offended you.
And 'most people', really? Most people of the M-solo-community maybe - or at least of the venom spreading-ones on the main page - but not in the real world surely. He's perfoming in much bigger venues now, (and in much more countries) than he did in, for instance, 1997. And to much steeper ticket prizes I may add.
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
Great to read! I was 14 when The Queen is Dead came out, and yes, I felt the same about Strangeways and Viva Hate s you did. A great time to discover such great music and, in hindsight, some of the best popular music ever recorded.
In the late 80s I also bought a book, Morrissey in His Own Words, full of profound, and sometimes, silly quotes, so from an early age I knew he was a bit of an oddball character, with sometimes strange views. But then that's all in the music too, isn't it?
It certainly hasn't hindered my appreciation of the music, if possible only enhanced it.

Yes he is an oddball and that is in the music. But the context is left to my interpretation based on my views and the life experience I have. Currently the context is being provided outside the music, limiting the broad paintbrushes strokes of geniuses which were morrisseys lyrics and lyrics alone. Now we have the addition, of personal views/statements which are now in tandem with the lyrics. This closes the imagination of what the songs mean as a personal interpretation to the listener
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
Clear, so you feel he should keep the frequency down and just say idiotic things once in a while like in the good old days :)
I honestly don't think he has said anything new in recent months that could have offended you.
And 'most people', really? Most people of the M-solo-community maybe - or at least of the venom spreading-ones on the main page - but not in the real world surely. He's perfoming in much bigger venues now, (and in much more countries) than he did in, for instance, 1997. And to much steeper ticket prizes I may add.

Ok, I am wrong.
His statements are not offensive at all, only to a handful of lunatics here on solo.
He is better, bigger and more popular today than he ever was too. Proof of this is surely the huge sell out crowds in Paraguay and Estonia. Who needs the UK after all?
 

Thewlis

Junior Member
Yes he is an oddball and that is in the music. But the context is left to my interpretation based on my views and the life experience I have. Currently the context is being provided outside the music, limiting the broad paintbrushes strokes of geniuses which were morrisseys lyrics and lyrics alone. Now we have the addition, of personal views/statements which are now in tandem with the lyrics. This closes the imagination of what the songs mean as a personal interpretation to the listener
But why 'now' exactly? The personal views/statements have always been there. In the early 90s I devoured the English music magazines and among the many hilarious ones, there was always a dubious quote. The NME even put him on the cover, I think it was 1992, with THIS ALARMING MAN in capital letters on it, with a selection of his alleged racist views. And he gave an interview in Q magazine the month after saying 'blacks and whites will never get along'. Extremely silly, but there you go. This didn't stop him from making maybe his greatest solo record the following year, and didn't stop me from loving it. So no, 'the personal views/statements' to me are not in tandem with the lyrics, not then and not now. And I don't see why they should be now but were not then, unless you went out of your way to avoid reading any interview then.
 

Thewlis

Junior Member
Ok, I am wrong.
His statements are not offensive at all, only to a handful of lunatics here on solo.
He is better, bigger and more popular today than he ever was too. Proof of this is surely the huge sell out crowds in Paraguay and Estonia. Who needs the UK after all?
His statements ARE offensive, and have always been offensive. If only these lunatics could be transported back to 1992 or 1999 they would see that they were the ones cheering along on these very pages, and not even frowning over things like 'the gates are flooded', 'the slave trade, the holocaust, the meat industry' and 'to be on Top of the Pops these days one needs, by law, to be black'.
And yes, he's played bigger shows in the UK too recently than in most of the 1990s.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I don't think you understand where I am coming from really, but that's ok.
Of course, I also rank The Smiths as the best band in the history of music, and Morrissey until the mid-90s as a close second.
Of course that's enough for me too, I would not be here otherwise, and I would not be as passionate as I am after all these years.
And yes, there are are some decent songs in every album (and b-sides) since 2004, but on the whole his music and lyrics speak to me less and less as time goes by.
Yes, partly because I have changed but also undoubtedly because the songs are simply not as good as they used to be.
And this, coupled with the increasingly frequent statements/rants which I and most people find it impossible to relate to and impossible to align with is what has led to me feeling the way I do.

Out of curiosity, how many times have you seen The Smiths and Morrisey?
Best and worst gigs?!
 

NealCassidy

FREE SPEECH #FBPB
Looking at the bigger picture, whenever Morrissey is mentioned it is always 'former Smiths frontman' and whether or not it should have, the solo stuff never really made it into the national consciousness quite so much.

So his reputation now to the general public is not, I think, informed by these TTY statements you quote, even though a lot of posters say that he is becoming a monster etc...
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
Looking at the bigger picture, whenever Morrissey is mentioned it is always 'former Smiths frontman' and whether or not it should have, the solo stuff never really made it into the national consciousness quite so much.

So his reputation now to the general public is not, I think, informed by these TTY statements you quote, even though a lot of posters say that he is becoming a monster etc...

I am not interested in the general public, or their perception, never have and never will.
What is your opinion regarding these statements? What do you think?
 

NealCassidy

FREE SPEECH #FBPB
I am not interested in the general public, or their perception, never have and never will.
What is your opinion regarding these statements? What do you think?

I think he is a singer-songwriter.
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
' It is my opinion, nothing else, and believe me when I say that I take no joy in observing/stating these things.'

Now this is not a criticism. I'm just really trying to understand why people go on and on with their hateful posts on why they don't like M anymore. If it's not because they 'take joy' ? then what ? Is it taking joy in hating another human being?

My take on negative posters,fallen fans,side show trolls,etc .. Is that it's some form of self therapy (which seems to be a dead end) where I feel they need to post negative post after negative post in a way to cut that umbilical cord of love that STILL binds them to M.

M is their identity.A image,symbol,reflection of who has shaped them and who has given them strength to walk through the storms of their life with their head held high,to carry on in spite of this world. But even though they try to break this mirror... time & time again they keep coming back, and when they look into it who do they see? not themselves but Morrissey.

You may be onto something. If I understand the post, we should encourage the negative posting as it can help a noted fan break the umbilical cord to morrissey. It sounds funny but may be plausible. I think the only problem now would be the unified support that no challenge should be made against the negative post. This may help them work it out without flaming more negative which is perpetuated with each response, never allowing them to just fade away were they won't be bothersome in sharing there feelings, emotions and so on (however sick and misguided they are). It is something to ponder. But in that vein even your post would only provoke thought and not allow the natural process of letting go. Even my post I guess.
 
Ok, I am wrong.
His statements are not offensive at all, only to a handful of lunatics here on solo.
He is better, bigger and more popular today than he ever was too. Proof of this is surely the huge sell out crowds in Paraguay and Estonia. Who needs the UK after all?

lmao seriously. Not trying to be mean or anything, but i don't think that the crowd yesterday in Argentina mean that much or it was a reflection of his popularity worldwide. Argentina really loves british musicians and i've been to luna park before and i've seen the stadium to its full capacity for some artists who could be considered nostalgia acts.
 
Looking at the bigger picture, whenever Morrissey is mentioned it is always 'former Smiths frontman' and whether or not it should have, the solo stuff never really made it into the national consciousness quite so much.

So his reputation now to the general public is not, I think, informed by these TTY statements you quote, even though a lot of posters say that he is becoming a monster etc...

this is true. I've seen in different social media sites that whenever moz is mentioned and someone doesn't know who he is (especially the younger generations), people reply by saying "he was the lead singer of the smiths". As much as some of his fan are annoyed by that, at the end of the day that will be his biggest legacy.

Another thing is that even tho the majority of people will remember him for his music, we live in a time when social media and social justice warriors go hand in hand, so obviously a lot of people will bring morrissey's racism and some of the other things he has said as an argument for not listening to his music
 

billybu69

Junior Member
Subscriber
lmao seriously. Not trying to be mean or anything, but i don't think that the crowd yesterday in Argentina mean that much or it was a reflection of his popularity worldwide. Argentina really loves british musicians and i've been to luna park before and i've seen the stadium to its full capacity for some artists who could be considered nostalgia acts.

How much do Argentinians love British musicians?
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
lmao seriously. Not trying to be mean or anything, but i don't think that the crowd yesterday in Argentina mean that much or it was a reflection of his popularity worldwide. Argentina really loves british musicians and i've been to luna park before and i've seen the stadium to its full capacity for some artists who could be considered nostalgia acts.

You will find that was the point I was making when I said sell out crowds in Paraguay and Estonia are all that's required to prove how popular he is today.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies.

We all live in a murderous world, as the events in Norway shown, with 97 dead. Though that is nothing compared to what happens in McDonald's and Kentucky Fried shit every day.

Joyce and Rourke were mere session musicians, as readily replaceable as the parts in a lawnmower.

I see no difference between eating animals and paedophilia.

f*** Morrissey-Solo.com

If you believe in the abattoir then you would support Auschwitz. There is no difference.

Your loss jew boy. (alleged)

If you are travelling through San Francisco International Airport you must be ready for a full sexual attack by people who claim to have your interests at heart. It is unlikely that ISIS would stoop so low.

In truth, the Youngest is an unavoidable #1 single - as was You Have Killed Me. By my very presence alone (music apart), my time is Now.

Years of Refusal, Ringleader Of The Tormentors and You Are The Quarry are my best three albums (subsequently topped by World Peace Is None Of Your Business).





To name but ten...


“I wouldn’t be surprised if she made that African boy she adopted into a coat and wore him for 15 minutes, then threw it away,”

 
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Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
' It is my opinion, nothing else, and believe me when I say that I take no joy in observing/stating these things.'

Now this is not a criticism. I'm just really trying to understand why people go on and on with their hateful posts on why they don't like M anymore. If it's not because they 'take joy' ? then what ? Is it taking joy in hating another human being?

My take on negative posters,fallen fans,side show trolls,etc .. Is that it's some form of self therapy (which seems to be a dead end) where I feel they need to post negative post after negative post in a way to cut that umbilical cord of love that STILL binds them to M.

M is their identity.A image,symbol,reflection of who has shaped them and who has given them strength to walk through the storms of their life with their head held high,to carry on in spite of this world. But even though they try to break this mirror... time & time again they keep coming back, and when they look into it who do they see? not themselves but Morrissey.

Oh please, spare us the cheap psychology.
I am not on a quest to turn away from Moz, trying to justify anything to myself or hoping to exorcise any demons.

I am just making two straightforward points, the first one being that Morrissey has become more and more difficult to like as a person with the passing of time, especially in recent years, largely due to what can at best be described as the clumsiness of his statements.
The second, and far more important one as a music fan, is that the quality of the music/songwriting has deteriorated steadily since 2004.
In simple terms, the output in the last 11 years is nowhere near as good as that of the 1988-1995/97 period, which in turn was never quite as good as what he produced with The Smiths between 1983 and 1987, which was nothing short of sublime.
Yes, this is a matter of opinion, but one I believe most long time followers will agree with.
So, to summarise, no anti-Morrissey agenda here, and no soul searching either.

A palpable tone of sadness, can you read?
 

Thewlis

Junior Member
Oh please, spare us the cheap psychology.
I am not on a quest to turn away from Moz, trying to justify anything to myself or hoping to exorcise any demons.

I am just making two straightforward points, the first one being that Morrissey has become more and more difficult to like as a person with the passing of time, especially in recent years, largely due to what can at best be described as the clumsiness of his statements.
The second, and far more important one as a music fan, is that the quality of the music/songwriting has deteriorated steadily since 2004.
In simple terms, the output in the last 11 years is nowhere near as good as that of the 1988-1995/97 period, which in turn was never quite as good as what he produced with The Smiths between 1983 and 1987, which was nothing short of sublime.
Yes, this is a matter of opinion, but one I believe most long time followers will agree with.
So, to summarise, no anti-Morrissey agenda here, and no soul searching either.

A palpable tone of sadness, can you read?
Well, we can all agree on this I think. It's just that your initial post sounded a bit more negative than this.

And I don't know if you like any other music, but I know very few, if any, pop artists who produce some of their best stuff 20 or 30 years into their career. The best stuff is almost always in the first 5-10 years.
Moz is no exception here.
For me Smiths 1983-1987 is the best pop music ever recorded.
Moz 1988-1994 is in the top 5.
Moz 1995-2015 is in the top 50.
And there really is no one in popular music who can match that :)
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
Well, we can all agree on this I think. It's just that your initial post sounded a bit more negative than this.

And I don't know if you like any other music, but I know very few, if any, pop artists who produce some of their best stuff 20 or 30 years into their career. The best stuff is almost always in the first 5-10 years.
Moz is no exception here.
For me Smiths 1983-1987 is the best pop music ever recorded.
Moz 1988-1994 is in the top 5.
Moz 1995-2015 is in the top 50.
And there really is no one in popular music who can match that :)

Well, there was an imperfect list and a perfect list posted at the same time.
People chose to focus on the negative one.
 
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