Imperfect List

A

Anonymous

Guest
id take quarry swords and world peace over southpaw the original maladjusted any day. ringleader is just terrible for the production and just leaves me feeling so cold to it. years of refusal i really liked but im a fan of fast loud rock music (though in my terms years is a mildly quiet album but relatively noise i guess compared to his other music i could see it being considered such). i mean the boy racer is a pretty slight song imo with not the best or most meaningful lyrics. if anything this would be my moz solo listing as of right now


bona drag
swords
arsenal
world peace
quarry
maladjusted (new track list)
vauxhall
viva hate
kill uncle
ringleader
southpaw (new track list as this was the only way i was gonna buy this album)

a little weird to have two comps at the top i guess but i kinda like the what i feel as an easier or perhaps breezier track listing dynamic. i mean i love the way swords can go from songs like my dearest love to the never played and from the breezy christian doir to shame is. a lot of his albums can be a little to thematic sometimes in musical tone. i dont always want a grab bag of songs but it does allow for a bit more of the humor serious dynamic we saw more of in his tenure with the smiths in the way the queen is dead goes from what she said to cemetry gates or when vicar in a tutu comes on all surprising after singing about dying by someones side. just an observation
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Oh please, spare us the cheap psychology.
I am not on a quest to turn away from Moz, trying to justify anything to myself or hoping to exorcise any demons.

I am just making two straightforward points, the first one being that Morrissey has become more and more difficult to like as a person with the passing of time, especially in recent years, largely due to what can at best be described as the clumsiness of his statements.
The second, and far more important one as a music fan, is that the quality of the music/songwriting has deteriorated steadily since 2004.
In simple terms, the output in the last 11 years is nowhere near as good as that of the 1988-1995/97 period, which in turn was never quite as good as what he produced with The Smiths between 1983 and 1987, which was nothing short of sublime.
Yes, this is a matter of opinion, but one I believe most long time followers will agree with.
So, to summarise, no anti-Morrissey agenda here, and no soul searching either.

A palpable tone of sadness, can you read?

Well stated. Pretty much summarizes my sentiments.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest


"online biographies have also appeared. Unlike books and films, they often do not tell a chronological narrative: instead they are archives of many discrete media elements related to an individual person, including video clips, photographs, and text articles. Biography-Portraits were created in 2001, by the German artist Ralph Ueltzhoeffer. Media scholar Lev Manovich says that such archives exemplify the database form, allowing users to navigate the materials in many ways."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biography#Recent_years

'The Stages Of Celebrity

http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/4108/1/Toothill13MPhil.pdf


Thank you for the link. Reading.
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
.
Agree with some of these points.Also my post wasn't directed totally at you ,just a feeling I get with the posts generally here.
And just wanting to understand their cheap and angry psychologies that seem to guide them to make such posts. I think Viva,Arsenal,Vauxhall rank right up there with some of the Smiths songs...but of course not all. Though I do wish some people would try to look deeper to ask why they continue to write negative posts rather than just dismissing it as just 'entertainment'.
I feel if a little 'soul searching' was done...we would all benefit from the tiresome barrage of daily hate.

thanks for your reply.

I wouldn't worry about them. I'm sure they have reasons that are valid to them even if you don't agree. But the more you acknowledge and ask about them, the more they know that they "rent space" in your head, owning you from your one statements of wonder. Don't give them that. I think this place has tamed a lot as far as the shaming and bullying of member to member, negative is OK but fat shaming, personal character assisination is over the top for decency. I don't care what you say positive or negative about morrissey, you have no power to change what I have already felt and how it affected me at the time.

Well today, I think a new morrissey fan has a choice, make it about the music and keep it perfect, or include the all, and it may not be so perfect, just like any other ordinary human being.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
You people in search of a flawless god to worship, who show horrified when find a human being. Have you ever loved someone? A friend, a father, a lover, a son... an artist? Everybody has light and shadows. It's not absolute perfection, it's perfection for you right now. You don't have to destroy someone you don't like anymore. It's better for your soul to leave without judgment or prejudice, thanking the good times. Move on and let people live their own lives and pay for their own mistakes. Who are you to demand something from someone? Who are you to spot someone else's "imperfections"?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
When you say that Moz is the ex-leader of the Smiths most may be aware of the name 'the Smiths' but won't be able to name a song either, or they can name only one or two of their songs. THAT'S the reality. And there's nothing wrong about that.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
.

I wouldn't worry about them. I'm sure they have reasons that are valid to them even if you don't agree. But the more you acknowledge and ask about them, the more they know that they "rent space" in your head, owning you from your one statements of wonder. Don't give them that. I think this place has tamed a lot as far as the shaming and bullying of member to member, negative is OK but fat shaming, personal character assisination is over the top for decency. I don't care what you say positive or negative about morrissey, you have no power to change what I have already felt and how it affected me at the time.

Well today, I think a new morrissey fan has a choice, make it about the music and keep it perfect, or include the all, and it may not be so perfect, just like any other ordinary human being.

"The Misconception: When your beliefs are challenged with facts, you alter your opinions and incorporate the new information into your thinking.The Truth: When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger."

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/
 
Last edited:

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
You people in search of a flawless god to worship, who show horrified when find a human being. Have you ever loved someone? A friend, a father, a lover, a son... an artist? Everybody has light and shadows. It's not absolute perfection, it's perfection for you right now. You don't have to destroy someone you don't like anymore. It's better for your soul to leave without judgment or prejudice, thanking the good times. Move on and let people live their own lives and pay for their own mistakes. Who are you to demand something from someone? Who are you to spot someone else's "imperfections"?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
"The Misconception: When your beliefs are challenged with facts, you alter your opinions and incorporate the new information into your thinking.The Truth: When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger."

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

Seems pretty reasonable, from the article.


Source: http://www.xkcd.com
The last time you got into, or sat on the sidelines of, an argument online with someone who thought they knew all there was to know about health care reform, gun control, gay marriage, climate change, sex education, the drug war, Joss Whedon or whether or not 0.9999 repeated to infinity was equal to one – how did it go?

Did you teach the other party a valuable lesson? Did they thank you for edifying them on the intricacies of the issue after cursing their heretofore ignorance, doffing their virtual hat as they parted from the keyboard a better person?

No, probably not. Most online battles follow a similar pattern, each side launching attacks and pulling evidence from deep inside the web to back up their positions until, out of frustration, one party resorts to an all-out ad hominem nuclear strike. If you are lucky, the comment thread will get derailed in time for you to keep your dignity, or a neighboring commenter will help initiate a text-based dogpile on your opponent.

What should be evident from the studies on the backfire effect is you can never win an argument online. When you start to pull out facts and figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent feel as though they are even more sure of their position than before you started the debate. As they match your fervor, the same thing happens in your skull. The backfire effect pushes both of you deeper into your original beliefs.

Have you ever noticed the peculiar tendency you have to let praise pass through you, but feel crushed by criticism? A thousand positive remarks can slip by unnoticed, but one “you suck” can linger in your head for days. One hypothesis as to why this and the backfire effect happens is that you spend much more time considering information you disagree with than you do information you accept. Information which lines up with what you already believe passes through the mind like a vapor, but when you come across something which threatens your beliefs, something which conflicts with your preconceived notions of how the world works, you seize up and take notice. Some psychologists speculate there is an evolutionary explanation. Your ancestors paid more attention and spent more time thinking about negative stimuli than positive because bad things required a response. Those who failed to address negative stimuli failed to keep breathing.
 

Poet

Banned
Seems pretty reasonable, from the article.


Source: http://www.xkcd.com
The last time you got into, or sat on the sidelines of, an argument online with someone who thought they knew all there was to know about health care reform, gun control, gay marriage, climate change, sex education, the drug war, Joss Whedon or whether or not 0.9999 repeated to infinity was equal to one – how did it go?

Did you teach the other party a valuable lesson? Did they thank you for edifying them on the intricacies of the issue after cursing their heretofore ignorance, doffing their virtual hat as they parted from the keyboard a better person?

No, probably not. Most online battles follow a similar pattern, each side launching attacks and pulling evidence from deep inside the web to back up their positions until, out of frustration, one party resorts to an all-out ad hominem nuclear strike. If you are lucky, the comment thread will get derailed in time for you to keep your dignity, or a neighboring commenter will help initiate a text-based dogpile on your opponent.

What should be evident from the studies on the backfire effect is you can never win an argument online. When you start to pull out facts and figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent feel as though they are even more sure of their position than before you started the debate. As they match your fervor, the same thing happens in your skull. The backfire effect pushes both of you deeper into your original beliefs.

Have you ever noticed the peculiar tendency you have to let praise pass through you, but feel crushed by criticism? A thousand positive remarks can slip by unnoticed, but one “you suck” can linger in your head for days. One hypothesis as to why this and the backfire effect happens is that you spend much more time considering information you disagree with than you do information you accept. Information which lines up with what you already believe passes through the mind like a vapor, but when you come across something which threatens your beliefs, something which conflicts with your preconceived notions of how the world works, you seize up and take notice. Some psychologists speculate there is an evolutionary explanation. Your ancestors paid more attention and spent more time thinking about negative stimuli than positive because bad things required a response. Those who failed to address negative stimuli failed to keep breathing.

berneydidnotread.gif
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
lmao seriously. Not trying to be mean or anything, but i don't think that the crowd yesterday in Argentina mean that much or it was a reflection of his popularity worldwide. Argentina really loves british musicians and i've been to luna park before and i've seen the stadium to its full capacity for some artists who could be considered nostalgia acts.

You are extremely mean. I feel insulted. Are you saying we as Argentinian are a sub-specie? Do you know the cultural life in Argentina? Do you know Buenos Aires?
 

countthree

Well-Known Member

You can't leave the world and its imperfections without dying, it is assumed that our duty is to improve the world in which we live. We must spot what is wrong. But you can get away from Morrisey and have a life if you no longer enjoy his music or his persona. He isn't bombing people, he isn't condemning millions of people hungering from birth, he doesn't hit women or children, torture animals nor host Guantanamo. I'm sure there are many more things worthy of your hate and your time. Moz is just a man telling his truth. Take it or leave it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Poet

Banned
You can't leave the world and its imperfections without dying, it is assumed that our duty is to improve the world in which we live. We must spot what is wrong. But you can get away from Morrisey and have a life if you no longer enjoy his music or his persona. He isn't bombing people, he isn't condemning millions of people hungering from birth, he doesn't hit women or children, torture animals nor host Guantanamo. I'm sure there are many more things worthy of your hate and your time. Moz is just a man telling his truth. Take it or leave it.


Brummie is a troll. Don't feed him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

countthree

Well-Known Member
i'm not moz, i would never called people sub-specie and yes i've been several times to buenos aires and mendoza :)

Well, you did. You said "i don't think that the crowd yesterday in Argentina mean that much or it was a reflection of his popularity worldwide". We are part of the world, we are humans.
Johnny Marr is also loved here in Argentina. He played last June in Niceto Bar https://www.billboard.com.ar/articulo/332/johnny-marr-en-argentina-%E2%80%9Cel-rock-pas%C3%B3-de-moda%E2%80%9D
 
Well, you did. You said "i don't think that the crowd yesterday in Argentina mean that much or it was a reflection of his popularity worldwide". We are part of the world, we are humans.
Johnny Marr is also loved here in Argentina. He played last June in Niceto Bar https://www.billboard.com.ar/articulo/332/johnny-marr-en-argentina-%E2%80%9Cel-rock-pas%C3%B3-de-moda%E2%80%9D

but i didn't. Not everyone is racist like moz my dear ;) . Also, you totally didn't understand what i mean by the argentina comment. Oh and what the f*** Does Johnny Marr have to do with anything. Like you guys on this site hate him, yet always mention him. So weird :confused:
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
but i didn't. Not everyone is racist like moz my dear ;) . Also, you totally didn't understand what i mean by the argentina comment. Oh and what the f*** Does Johnny Marr have to do with anything. Like you guys on this site hate him, yet always mention him. So weird :confused:

Why don't you enlighten me about the meaning of your comment about Argentina? It did seem racist in my opinion and I felt touched by it. You said "Not trying to be mean or anything", but you were mean and more. You decreased the success of Morrissey filling first a big theatre and then a stadium during two days in a row. You call it nostalgia but most of them were young people.

You said we love English musicians and it's true. It seems a contradiction, but most of us can separate the crimes the government commits -like Thatcher's sinking of the "Belgrano"- from the personal qualities of the citizens of a country. That's because we were victims of dictatorships, TOO.

Marr is British, I mentioned him because he was here in Argentina last June and played in a bar for a thousand fans. He's great, that's nostalgia and it's wonderful. I like him but I love Morrissey :)
 
Why don't you enlighten me about the meaning of your comment about Argentina? It did seem racist in my opinion and I felt touched by it. You said "Not trying to be mean or anything", but you were mean and more. You decreased the success of Morrissey filling first a big theatre and then a stadium during two days in a row. You call it nostalgia but most of them were young people.

You said we love English musicians and it's true. It seems a contradiction, but most of us can separate the crimes the government commits -like Thatcher's sinking of the "Belgrano"- from the personal qualities of the citizens of a country. That's because we were victims of dictatorships, TOO.

Marr is British, I mentioned him because he was here in Argentina last June and played in a bar for a thousand fans. He's great, that's nostalgia and it's wonderful. I like him but I love Morrissey :)

lmao just because ur fave is a racist, doesn't mean you have to try to make other feel the same way. Just no.

Lol you are the one implying that is weird that argentinians love british musicians because of the past conflicts between those two countries. That never even crossed my mind at all.

I've been to argentina a lot of times and what i meant by my comment is that is not surprising Moz popularity there because british music has a lot of fans in Argentina you dumb bitch. But that doesn't mean is as popular now worldwide and lbr, he's only relevant now for being controversial

Also, is ok you love Morrissey, but again, what the f*** does that have to do with Marr? i honestly don't get your comment at all. Like at the end, both marr and moz are nostalgia acts, because most people care about their old music lets be honest. I mean, i now that bothers you, but it's the truth. I'm still so confused with your comment about Marr. Besides, I only cared about the smiths, not moz or marr individually oops!!

And last but not least, like i said before please just take your anger with Moz racism to him and don't try to make other people look like racist. For once i would never called someone Sub-specie, or say that Reggae is vile or that Obama doesn't look black enough. That's what you fave has said and i don't see you are very offended by it ;)
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom