"Johnny Marr says The Smiths had a “blind spot” of being obsessed with media and notoriety" - NME (July 5, 2021)

shoplifterromo sends the link:

"Particularly one certain member of the group"

Excerpt:

Speaking to Poet Laureate Simon Armitage for the new BBC Radio 4 series The Poet Laureate Has Gone to His Shed, Marr said that the band could have done with “less” coverage at the height of their 1980s fame.

Discussing how it became their blind spot, Marr said: “I was in a very very big ‘music press’ band, which now I’m older I think we could’ve done with less of that.

“I wouldn’t say it was our downfall but I think it was a blind spot of The Smiths, being so occupied with the media and notoriety – particularly one certain member of the group. I think that could’ve been dialled down a bit and would’ve helped the group out.”


Related item:
 
Sorry Johnny, pure nonsense. Contradicting himself again too, as he's said many times that Morrissey was a natural at 'handling' the Press and could carry himself in interviews better than anyone else. I believe most of JM's comments are cherry-picked and distorted for headlines but even so, this snarking at M is getting really tiresome. Go down the Stamford with the bloke and stop being so petty.

Maybe there’s been a rift between father and son, and Marr is trying to get on Nile’s good side ?


But I agree, definitely cherry picking
and Marr being snarky.
 
Why all the Johnny bashing?! The Smiths were Morrissey and Marr. A perfect partnership. The reason the band broke up is all the stress that Marr was in trying to be in charge of the music AND the management of the Smiths. If they worried less about the press and trying to manage themselves, and if Morrissey wasn't complaining all the time about promotion and chart position, they would have been happier and might have stayed together to record another album or two.
I don't think we should forget Rourke and Joyce. They might not have written the songs but they were brilliant in their own ways too.
 
Why else would someone quit a band at the height of their fame unless it was unbearable?
If both Moz and Marr were less prone to diva behaviour (Moz is the main culprit for that of course) they could have taken 6 months off and reconvened stronger and better. But I guess sometimes you can spend too much time with someone and it runs its course. Maybe the split was inevitable regardless of what they could have done. I do think that Marr was massively over worked and frustrated, and maybe that could have been alleviated by a proper manager and a holiday.
 
I don't think we should forget Rourke and Joyce. They might not have written the songs but they were brilliant in their own ways too.
Absolutely. No disrespect for the boys. Boy brilliant and essential in their own way as members of the band!
 
No one had ever heard or seen anything like the Smiths at that time. Likewise no one had ever seen of heard anyone like Morrissey so this little fantasy Johnny has of shrinking back into the shadows was never going to happen. Look at their output in that short space of time. What else was he hoping to achieve?
 
People seem to be desperate to read this as an attack on Morrissey, but I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. When he says "I think that could’ve been dialed down a bit and would’ve helped the group out” - well, Morrissey was part of the group, so I'm presuming he means it would also have been to Morrissey's benefit as well. And let's not forget that Morrissey himself has been following the policy of dialing down his engagement with the media in recent years, so maybe he's come to the same conclusion?

There's no doubt that Morrissey's (often brilliant and hilarious) interviews helped get the Smiths noticed, but it also put them on such a pedestal that it made them easy targets when the press began to turn in later years. It also arguably cemented their image, and painted them into a corner as backwards-looking indie retros obsessed with the past.

I can see how the idea that maybe if they'd have flown a bit more under the radar, then some of the drama might have been avoided.
 
:rolleyes:
right, :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: was doing Moz a favor by throwing shade his way:raisinghand:
a media manipulator Le:frogface: maybe reading 'nerak's post inspired him.:hammer:
 
And of course, Johnny's right again re: Moz and recent press.

 
At the time: beads, quiffs, gladioli & NHS specs were in far more demand than Brian Jones / Stu Sutcliffe / Byrds haircuts - that's about it really.
The rest came from the music itself IMHO.
I read the press religiously, but the connection I felt on hearing albums & live performances is what fueled my following them - not lots of witty ripostes in magazines / on TV.
Not forgetting they were actually quite prolific tourers and the albums were great - what exactly would have been the 'help' the group gained if things were "dialed down"?
FWD.
Longevity? Not that that is a particularly significant or valuable aspect of popular music.
 
The Poke article is badly researched garbage from Twitter & the tweeters are shallow bastards.

When it's that stupid it doesn't matter.
 
"Particularly one certain member of the group" :ahhh::drama:

could be Johnny a little jealous that the music press wasn’t breaking down his door to
pick his brain and heart ?



“I wouldn’t say it was our downfall but I think it was a blind spot of The Smiths, being so occupied with the media and notoriety – particularly one certain member of the group.

I think that could’ve been dialled down a bit and would’ve helped the group out.”

Does Johnny elaborate on how he thinks it would have helped?
He's obviously talking about himself. He's still doing it. Every week it seems there is some feature on Johnny like "how I get that blond spot in my hair," or "why did I need forty tracks of guitar, plus here's how I played it!"
 
Why on earth would Marr say this ... and why now? Well the likely answer is that this is another attempt to distance himself from Morrissey. Morrissey's world view is not in keeping with the opinions held by Johnny's chums in the mainstream media. Marr wants to be in the celeb' club with Noel and Bono, smug elitist pricks to a man. Morrissey doesn't give a f*** about being accepted and fawned over by these people. And that is another reason they hate him. Morrissey created the aesthetics for The Smiths and gave good copy. This good copy enchanted the Oxbridge crowd at the music press who could nod along in agreement with Morrissey over the brilliance of Oscar Wilde and Karel Reisz. Morrissey's wit and intelligence elevated The Smiths and gave them media coverage, which contributed to their success. Maybe Marr should have knocked on Robin Utracik's door instead - that would have saved him from the indignity of being a press darling. With each passing year, Marr becomes more of a sad muso, forever wheeled out to show us how he came up with those signature riffs, what an ingrate you are Johnny.
 
o_O ?

Marr said nothing about Morrissey’s
recent press.


Are you saying that Morrissey’s interviews were so controversial at the height of the Smiths (86-87?) that Marr thought it would help the band if he dialed it down?

What was so controversial and how would it help the band to dial down the press coverage?

He's probably thinking of the start of their career in particular, when the controversy over Morrissey's preoccupation with underage/child sex was creating negative headlines. I think at least a couple of records were banned from airplay by the BBC, were they not? Although granted that wasn't always innately because of the song's content - 'Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before' was just bad timing.
 
To everyone getting hysterical over this slightly negative thing Johnny said about the Smiths - do yourself a favor and listen to the whole interview. It is lovely and Johnny says a lot of nice things about Morrissey and the Smiths. Don’t let the press who cherry picked this one quote push your buttons - sound familiar? It’s an interesting hour of mostly Smiths talk and some great guitar playing.
 
Johnny "I'll throw stones 'cause M doesn wont work with me" Marr

If not for M , the smiths would have just been a run of the mill , Noel G type indie band ,.
M would he have had the same success solo, without the notoriety of The Smiths?
Without The Smiths (the group as a whole) M in 1988 would still be vegetating, locked in his room and would not be known at all!
 
Longevity? Not that that is a particularly significant or valuable aspect of popular music.
Interesting. My thoughts as a young fan seeing them survive the initial furore over the 'child abuse' accusations, how it was whipped up by The Sun et al, the knock on affect with The BBC... - happening relatively early on in their history left me thinking they could survive anything thrown at them by the press and any stressors that come with that level of accusation / scrutiny.
Although it is consigned to a couple of sentences in books now, that "paedophile" band was about as bad as anything Morrissey may have been accused of subsequently towards the split's build-up. The fact his efforts to cobble Al Jolson together with Delaney in a song or Handsome Devil being evidence of something sinister & abusive is laughable now, but it could have ended the band had Morrissey not been how he was with the media perhaps?
Seeing it develop at the time, I never felt that Johnny was expressly going simply because of anything ascribed solely to Morrissey's behaviour. I won't deny it may have played a part, but his desire to try other music, The The (his relationship with Matt Johnson being important here), Ferry, his 'break' Stateside, Angie's influence and his own stubbornness / ego etc. were all probably going to damage longevity too?
Regards,
FWD.
 
can’t tell if this is sarcasm.


Anyway, if the press was taking up anyone’s time, then it was Morrissey’s.
Marr and company were freed up even more to be as creative as they wanted.

So why is Marr complaining? Maybe because it was making them too popular, and this added more stress to the duties that wrongfully fell in Marr’s hands?

It is Morrissey that took up the burden and pleasure of promoting the band where Rough Trade’s wasn’t much in comparison.
The problem is that between M and the press, during The Smiths period, wanted, rightly or wrongly, to stand out from other artists. And his relationship with this press shifted to something that had nothing to do with The Smiths, but more between M and the press, The Smiths took a back seat.

Reread all of M's interviews from 1983 to 1987 and you would see the difference in the content of the words as you go. And weren't here to say it's the press's fault, if a reporter asks a question that has nothing to do with The Smiths, M might not have answered the question, but he did it anyway and this on almost any subject.

After concerning Rought Trade, if M was not satisfied with their trade policy, he could also leave Rough Trade, but to sign with whom and above all no longer have the freedom that they (M and The Smiths) had with RT (as well musical with respect to the press).
 
:lbf:
the only good part of :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft:
interview is when he picks up the :guitar:
and plays a moz song completely out
of tune wrong chords, and the dumb blogger gets all impressed:lbf:

:hammer:
Yes of course, M was doing everything at the time of The Smiths, lyrics and music.
And in the studio it is M who played all the instruments (guitar, bass, drums, piano, etc ......).
Moreover, it is unanimously recognized that M is the best player in the universe of tambourine.

Vegan.Cro, even the covid didn't want him, that's saying it all :mask:
 
It sorta irks me that Marrs cocain use isn’t mentioned as part of the reason for the break up when everything he did at the end seems like coked up paranoid decision making. The reason the smiths don’t make music is because Johnny left to go make music with others not because morrissey was doing to many interview me about theyre band. It’s like he blaming Morrisseys press for his leaving
 
To everyone getting hysterical over this slightly negative thing Johnny said about the Smiths - do yourself a favor and listen to the whole interview. It is lovely and Johnny says a lot of nice things about Morrissey and the Smiths. Don’t let the press who cherry picked this one quote push your buttons - sound familiar? It’s an interesting hour of mostly Smiths talk and some great guitar playing.

But that's what Johnny always does - says lots of nice things, but gets in his little dig. I'm not saying he shouldn't criticise Morrissey - fine, if he wants to. But I get tired of the media swallowing or pandering to Marr's 'Mr. Nice Guy' when in fact he's a pretty ruthless, egotistical guy. And it was his ego, as much as it was Morrissey's, that ended The Smiths.

I was watching footage of their 1986 concerts and Marr is pretty embarrassing. Aside from the flashy suits he was sporting on that tour, it's the attention-seeking way he jerks around - he so obviously resents Morrissey being the focus of attention, and so obviously didn't appreciate what an asset the group had in their lead singer's charisma onstage. And in the studio he just couldn't come to terms with the fact that he was 'just' the guitar player, and in the background. I mean, Christ, he was Johnny Marr! The best pop guitar player/composer in the country, for my money. But you can see from the way his career has panned out that that wasn't enough for him.

If you look at footage of one of the early Smiths gigs (I think maybe the second gig) he's got a microphone and he's doing backing vocals. Then by probably the third gig, that's gone. But Marr, however inappropriately or for whatever reason, wanted to be a singer and a front man. He was frequently dropping little asides in interviews in the late 80s/90s about how he'd done backing vocals on this record and that record. Then he was 'persuaded' by Chrissie Hynde to sing 'Meat is Murder' live. The 'The Healers' then his 'solo' records.

My point being that his career as a singer/songwriter has been a non-event, but he has pursued it doggedly because he is surrounded by yes-men telling his he's great, who pander to his ego. And that's what he always wanted. He portrayed himself as a 'journeyman guitarist for hire' in the late 80s/early 90s, and that is what he would have excelled at, but he wanted to be a pop star, and so we got the underwhelming 'Electronic' project and his duff solo records.

I don't think Marr was wrong to quit The Smiths - if that's what he wanted, fine. But I do think he under-appreciated, and perhaps still under-appreciates Morrissey's talent. And I certainly think he underestimated Morrissey's capacity to make it as a solo artist, and probably 'quitting' The Smiths was just a political manoeuvre on his part, figuring that after a couple of years in the pop wilderness, a chastened and humbled Morrissey would be coming to him cap in hand, and Marr would have re-established his primacy in a re-formed Smiths. But he miscalculated big time.

The quote from Marr in this interview about Morrissey being too outspoken, and the way he slips it in amidst all the niceties, just typifies his attitude. He just doesn't get, and will never accept, that as big as his role was in The Smiths, and as big as his contribution was to their success, it was Morrissey who was the front man and the soul of 'The Smiths' - vocal melodies, lyrics, artwork, look, press interviews.... it was Morrissey who made them 'The Smiths'. And I think Marr still doesn't get that, or still resents it. Because if that wasn't the case, he wouldn't be saying daft things like this in interviews - basically expressing the desire that Morrissey (and by implication therefore 'The Smiths') had been a bit less Morrissey.
 
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