List of black people that Morrissey has worked with

[Gregor Samsa]

I'm so unhip to the latest slang I've never even heard of 'n-gro', though it does sound pretty stupid. How do you pronounce it - like N Sync?

You come across as both stupid and unpleasant.

 

[Anonymous]

Johnny Marr and Damon Albarn playing with Amadou and Mariam from Mali.

 

[ThePoliticalRevolution]

Johnny Marr and Damon Albarn playing with Amadou and Mariam from Mali.

I passed out at an Amadou and Mariam show once. I have very low blood pressure and sometimes used to faint but thats fixed ever since I started salting my food!

 

[Anonymous]

That is interesting. Ok; Make a list of black people that Johnny Marr has worked with and we'll compare that list with Morrissey's.

I expect Morrissey is in the lead when it comes to working with Mexicans.

 

[Anonymous]

Even though that’s etymologically correct, the connotation has changed. Words do that.

You're missing the point. 'Black' has exactly the same meaning as 'negro'. So that it carries a different connotation (positive rather than negative) is wherein lies the absurdity. 'Negro' was a lazy, reductive and contemptuous 'catch-all' term for anybody who was on the darker end of the skin tone spectrum, regardless of their skin colour or nationality or any other characteristic. That 'Black' should be regarded as anything other than the same simply shows how credulous, unthinking or hypocritical most people are with regard to the issue of race.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

You're missing the point. 'Black' has exactly the same meaning as 'negro'. So that it carries a different connotation (positive rather than negative) is wherein lies the absurdity. 'Negro' was a lazy, reductive and contemptuous 'catch-all' term for anybody who was on the darker end of the skin tone spectrum, regardless of their skin colour or nationality or any other characteristic. That 'Black' should be regarded as anything other than the same simply shows how credulous, unthinking or hypocritical most people are with regard to the issue of race.

Have you run this by black people? Did they agree with you?

 

[Anonymous]

Have you run this by black people? Did they agree with you?

Who are you referring to by 'black' people? People who you designate as 'black' despite the fact that they're not? If so, I can't see why I would want to ask someone whose skin colour isn't black if he/she agrees with me that their skin colour isn't black. It's not a question of opinion, it's a question of fact. Black is a colour. Your skin is either black or it isn't.

If you mean people whose skin colour actually is black (which is a minority of those to whom the term 'black' is applied to), again I can't see why I would want to ask them if they agree with me that they are black, since unless they're blind they presumably would agree, and in any case again it wouldn't be a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

If you mean, should I run this by people who think that they ought to be described as black, even though their skin colour isn't black, and who describe themselves as such, then no, I don't see any need to 'run it' by them. If they want to maintain that they are black, when that is factually not the case, then so be it, but it doesn't mean I have to concur.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Who are you referring to by 'black' people? People who you designate as 'black' despite the fact that they're not? If so, I can't see why I would want to ask someone whose skin colour isn't black if he/she agrees with me that their skin colour isn't black. It's not a question of opinion, it's a question of fact. Black is a colour. Your skin is either black or it isn't.

If you mean people whose skin colour actually is black (which is a minority of those to whom the term 'black' is applied to), again I can't see why I would want to ask them if they agree with me that they are black, since unless they're blind they presumably would agree, and in any case again it wouldn't be a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

If you mean, should I run this by people who think that they ought to be described as black, even though their skin colour isn't black, and who describe themselves as such, then no, I don't see any need to 'run it' by them. If they want to maintain that they are black, when that is factually not the case, then so be it, but it doesn't mean I have to concur.

1. Weird scenario. Why the hell would I mean that?

2. Another weird scenario and statement. Most of the people referred to a as ‘black’ are non-blacks? Where in the world is this behavior common practice? Britain?

3. Yet again, very weird scenario. And again why the hell would I mean that?

I have no idea why you paint these extremely weird scenarios and make these strange assumptions. I have no problem whatsoever with the term ‘black’ since that’s what black people themselves use. I do, however, have a problem with the term ‘negro’. Even though they both semantically mean the same thing, the latter is today deemed derogatory by those with interpretive precedence and others with half a brain. This to me is what this discussion is about. Nothing else.

 

[Anonymous]

1. Weird scenario. Why the hell would I mean that?

2. Another weird scenario and statement. Most of the people referred to a as ‘black’ are non-blacks? Where in the world is this behavior common practice? Britain?

3. Yet again, very weird scenario. And again why the hell would I mean that?

I have no idea why you paint these extremely weird scenarios and make these strange assumptions. I have no problem whatsoever with the term ‘black’ since that’s what black people themselves use. I do, however, have a problem with the term ‘negro’. Even though they both semantically mean the same thing, the latter is today deemed derogatory by those with interpretive precedence and others with half a brain. This to me is what this discussion is about. Nothing else.

1. It's implied by what you say.
2. Britain, yes. And the USA
3. "I have no problem whatsoever with the term 'black' since that's what black people themselves use. I do, however, have a problem with the term 'negro'."

A person's skin colour is black or it isn't. Therefore a person is black or he/she isn't. It's a matter of fact, not opinion. Personally, I don't want to refer to any person with black skin as 'black' because I think that labelling somebody according to the colour of their skin is reductive and perpetuates the whole issue of race. However I am certainly willing to acknowledge that somebody with black skin is black. Equally I would expect them (and anyone else) to acknowledge that somebody with black skin is negro, since it means the same thing, regardless of connotation. The fact that 'negro' is "deemed" wrong and 'black' is "deemed" correct is neither here not there to me. My beliefs are rooted in truth and logic, not in what is "deemed" correct. If you want to let others tell you what to believe, that's your business.

Equally therefore, I'm not willing to describe somebody with any shade of brown skin as black, because they're not black. Again, that's simply a fact. And when a true assertion is suppressed or refuted simply because it's not "deemed" to be acceptable, society is on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

1. It's implied by what you say.
2. Britain, yes. And the USA
3. "I have no problem whatsoever with the term 'black' since that's what black people themselves use. I do, however, have a problem with the term 'negro'."

A person's skin colour is black or it isn't. Therefore a person is black or he/she isn't. It's a matter of fact, not opinion. Personally, I don't want to refer to any person with black skin as 'black' because I think that labelling somebody according to the colour of their skin is reductive and perpetuates the whole issue of race. However I am certainly willing to acknowledge that somebody with black skin is black. Equally I would expect them (and anyone else) to acknowledge that somebody with black skin is negro, since it means the same thing, regardless of connotation. The fact that 'negro' is "deemed" wrong and 'black' is "deemed" correct is neither here not there to me. My beliefs are rooted in truth and logic, not in what is "deemed" correct. If you want to let others tell you what to believe, that's your business.

Equally therefore, I'm not willing to describe somebody with any shade of brown skin as black, because they're not black. Again, that's simply a fact. And when a true assertion is suppressed or refuted simply because it's not "deemed" to be acceptable, society is on a hiding to nothing.

1. Absolutely not. I’m sorry, but you misinterpreted.
2-3. You must understand that ‘black’ doesn’t (necessarily) mean the color black. Black as in coal, black as a raven or whatever. People of African descent are black, no matter the brownness of their skin. If you refuse to call them by the word they themselves and society prefer and have preferred for many decades, it’s up to you. But you will come across as ignorant and very unpleasant - not as some cool rebel refusing to let anyone tell you what to think.

I’ve said my piece. Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

1. Absolutely not. I’m sorry, but you misinterpreted.
2-3. You must understand that ‘black’ doesn’t (necessarily) mean the color black. Black as in coal, black as a raven or whatever. People of African descent are black, no matter the brownness of their skin. If you refuse to call them by the word they themselves and society prefer and have preferred for many decades, it’s up to you. But you will come across as ignorant and very unpleasant - not as some cool rebel refusing to let anyone tell you what to think.

I’ve said my piece. Thanks.

And you must understand that 'black' does mean the colour black. It's fascinating to have a discussion with somebody who had been brainwashed into almost literally believing that 'black is white'. In your case, you seem to have been persuaded to believe that 'brown is black'.

You seem equally to be unable to comprehend that when people accept and/or believe an assertion to be true - even though it isn't - simply because they are told to (for whatever reason - in this, because it will be 'offensive'), then they are simply being credulous. We were told for nearly two thousand years to believe the literal truth of Christianity. That didn't make it true. We were told that so-called 'black' people were inferior to so-called 'white' people. That didn't make it true. We were told that the Hillsborough football stadium disaster was a result of drunken working class yobs causing mayhem. That didn't make it true.

You can present the assertion "People of African descent are black" as a statement of fact if you wish, but that doesn't mean that it actually is a statement of fact. It's not. It's a lie. "Some people of African descent are black" is a statement of fact.

Learn to distinguish truth from lies, and not to believe and assert simply what those who you presume know better than you tell you to believe and assert. And learn the danger of living in a world where lies are asserted as truth, and go unchallenged.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

And you must understand that 'black' does mean the colour black. It's fascinating to have a discussion with somebody who had been brainwashed into almost literally believing that 'black is white'. In your case, you seem to have been persuaded to believe that 'brown is black'.

You seem equally to be unable to comprehend that when people accept and/or believe an assertion to be true - even though it isn't - simply because they are told to (for whatever reason - in this, because it will be 'offensive'), then they are simply being credulous. We were told for nearly two thousand years to believe the literal truth of Christianity. That didn't make it true. We were told that so-called 'black' people were inferior to so-called 'white' people. That didn't make it true. We were told that the Hillsborough football stadium disaster was a result of drunken working class yobs causing mayhem. That didn't make it true.

You can present the assertion "People of African descent are black" as a statement of fact if you wish, but that doesn't mean that it actually is a statement of fact. It's not. It's a lie. "Some people of African descent are black" is a statement of fact.

Learn to distinguish truth from lies, and not to believe and assert simply what those who you presume know better than you tell you to believe and assert. And learn the danger of living in a world where lies are asserted as truth, and go unchallenged.

You have a unique and singular view, I'll give you that. You should make a placard and head to the town square. No, make that two placards. One that says 'Blacks aren't black - no matter what they say' and 'Everyone is stupid except me'. Make sure you wear your tinfoil hat.

 

[Anonymous]

You have a unique and singular view, I'll give you that. You should make a placard and head to the town square. No, make that two placards. One that says 'Blacks aren't black - no matter what they say' and 'Everyone is stupid except me'. Make sure you wear your tinfoil hat.

Well, it's certainly clearly evident why you are someone who can be persuaded that the colour brown is actually black, if this is how acute your reasoning gets.

It's depressing though to live in a world where people quite happily admit (as you do) that they will accept an assertion to be true which demonstrably isn't, simply because they are told to: you are either too stupid to recognise this or too submissive/hypocritical to acknowledge it.

To give an example of just how stupid your pseudo-logic is: by your own argument - "People of African descent are black" - the entire human race must therefore be black.

 

[A-Non]

Have you run this by black people? Did they agree with you?

Yes. As a Black Smiths fan who's been coming here - off and on since this page it started, it helps to listen to others and not have an outdated, colonial mindset. As Brexit is showing, untold disasters ensure

 

[T. H. Auden]

I think most of the comments on this thread are off topic

 

[A-Non]

....you never knew nor understood properly to begin with. The only non-white folk I know of who’ve been on any post-Smiths recordings are Nawash Ali Khan violinist on ‘Our Frank’ and ‘Asian Rut’ off 1991’s ‘Kill Uncle’) and some pedlar of “....discofied nonsense clogging up the charts (S.P. Morrissey, 1986) by the name of Thelma Houston some 29 years later.
Neither have yet to grace a stage with the subject of this site. Better leave them known for dreaming wish for that to occur.

 

[A-Non]

I think most of the comments on this thread are off topic

They always go off-topic, before unfettered cranks start banging on about “The Kalergi Plan” and how having only their right hand for comfort at night got them turned to white nationalism. Very much them all over.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes. As a Black Smiths fan who's been coming here - off and on since this page it started, it helps to listen to others and not have an outdated, colonial mindset. As Brexit is showing, untold disasters ensure

The kind of mindset that uses terms like 'Black', you mean? That, to me, reflects an outdated, colonial mindset whereby a whole spectrum of peoples from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds are lazily grouped under a single label, a phenomenon which can only encourage and reinforce the tendency to see those peoples as homogeneous, and encourage and reinforce the idea that 'black' and 'white' racial groups are a real thing. Discrimination based on skin colour is a real thing, I accept that, but as I say, using the term 'black' simply reinforces and encourages the kind of mentality that discriminates according to skin colour, because it encourages simple-minded people to see look at the world in a simplistic way - literally, 'black and white'.

As to the term being in itself acceptable (which is implied by someone describing themselves as 'Black'), well, fine, if your skin colour is actually black, although I still don't see why you would want to describe yourself by denoting your skin colour, which only serves to reinforce the notion that your skin colour should be significant.

If on the other hand you are a person whose skin is black and who wishes to be described as Black, but objects to the term 'negro', well I don't follow the logic. If I object to the term 'whore', translating it into Latin isn't going to magically render it acceptable. The same ought to apply in reverse. If one objects to the term 'negro', then a word that means exactly the same thing in another language should be equally objectionable. Or else neither word should be objectionable.

Furthermore, if my skin colour isn't actually black (if it's brown, for example) then demanding that everyone refer to me as a Black Person really isn't reasonable. I'm certainly not going to be told by anyone that I should refer to them as something they're not, simply because it will offend them if I don't.

 

[Anonymous]

I think most of the comments on this thread are off topic

The comments that revolve around clarification of what the term 'black' means certainly aren't. Hard to address the topic of this thread without first agreeing on what it means.

 

[Lawrence]

Not at all. Marr worked with Manchester musicians Denise Johnson and Donald Johnson in Electronic, drummer Blair Cunningham in the Pretenders, produced and played guitar for a Stex single - all the way to appearing on stage with Alicia Keys, Kendrick Lamar, Nile Rodgers in recent days. These are just off the top of my head.