Oliver Cromwell?

nightandday

New Member
"I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death of Labour
and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still
salute him
and will salute him forever
"

I've always wondered what he meant by that? It doesn't make sense. :confused:
 
"I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death of Labour
and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still
salute him
and will salute him forever
"

I've always wondered what he meant by that? It doesn't make sense. :confused:

All I know about Oliver Cromwell that is relevant is that he was the first non-royal to be Lord Protector of England (my Scottish and Irish history is substandard, so I'm not sure if they were included). What that has to do with the modern royal line, and why they're slauting them forever and why his name should be spat upon, I don't know.
 
The Royal Family are incredibly fond of Oliver Cromwell's legacy of making England a republic and leading the commonwealth.
 
Cromwell was an oppressor in Ireland as were the Royals. Both persecuted Catholics.
 
The Royal Family are incredibly fond of Oliver Cromwell's legacy of making England a republic and leading the commonwealth.

I've only ever heard vague positive things said about Cromwell. Was there any major atrocity he is known for that is overlooked and why he shouldn't be so fondly admired? I've heard he was a bit hypocritical about his ideals, and I think that he was maybe too hawkish?
 
Cromwell was an oppressor in Ireland as were the Royals. Both persecuted Catholics.

So it's mostly the Irish Blood part and not the English Heart part? Was he actually benevolent towards the English and only oppressed the Irish?
 
I think he means spitting on somewhat hypocracy and false worship. I mean Cromwell considered taking the crown, he promoted free speach etc but imprissioned those who spoke out against him and tortured blasphemers.
 
I think he means spitting on somewhat hypocracy and false worship. I mean Cromwell considered taking the crown, he promoted free speach etc but imprissioned those who spoke out against him and tortured blasphemers.

Okay so I'm starting to understand why some people dislike Cromwell, but I still not quite sure about Moz's reference in the song. So is it decidely anti-Cromwell, anti-all of the past few hundred years of British politics, anti-hypocrisy, anti-anti-Irish, anti-anti-Catholic, or just a side-note on the rest of the anti-monarchy stuff?
 
"I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death of Labour
and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still
salute him
and will salute him forever
"

I've always wondered what he meant by that? It doesn't make sense. :confused:

it is simple
he wants the return of a true king
2ms.png

a Stuart!
 
I think he means spitting on somewhat hypocracy and false worship. I mean Cromwell considered taking the crown, he promoted free speach etc but imprissioned those who spoke out against him and tortured blasphemers.
I am aware of all the reasons why Cromwell should be spat upon - among other things, what he did in Ireland - but when did the Royal family salute Cromwell, and how likely are they to do it?

Maybe he just meant the fact that he re-conquered Ireland, so he considers them to be holding onto his legacy?
 
I am aware of all the reasons why Cromwell should be spat upon - among other things, what he did in Ireland - but when did the Royal family salute Cromwell, and how likely are they to do it?

Maybe he just meant the fact that he re-conquered Ireland, so he considers them to be holding onto his legacy?

maybe, ever so maybe,, he believes the Royals would agree with such hypocrasy. ofcourse he brought down the Royals and he led a horrible regime they might like to use him as an example,a sort ironic salute. Another reason could be he's saying the Royals would salute Cromwell as they know nothing of their own history. And another is the moz was being ironic putting the two together to prove a point (not sure what point though)

It's probably none of those though :o
 
But they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Cromwell, an appreciative bunch they are! :eek:
 
But they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Cromwell, an appreciative bunch they are! :eek:

chica, chica, chica
you have so much to learn about british history
here ill simplify it for you
if the UK is Jugoslavia
then then the english are the stuck up Serbs that think they are better than everyone else


better now?
simple right
:cool:
 
I dont understand te hubbub. We spit upon Cromwell because he was a Christmas banning puritan who illegalised everything fun and was responsible for massacres and torture. It then says "This royal line thats still polluting" the salute him for ever line is then unrelated to the previous phrase
 
"I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death of Labour
and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still
salute him
and will salute him forever
"

I've always wondered what he meant by that? It doesn't make sense. :confused:

You could spend a few years researching such a complex character as Cromwell.

Cromwell was a great (meaning he killed loads of people) military leader and Politician.

Cromwell actually instigated a republic and was hated by the royals. That is why the royals exhumed his body and hung it in chains before beheading him in a macabre ritual execution.

Not sure why Moz thinks they salute him.

Cromwell waged war on Ireland.

Cromwell also waged war against the Scots and Welsh.

Cromwell's wars against the Irish and Scots were more like massacres, the defeats were spectacular.

Cromwell is generally thought to have been especially brutal towards the Irish, something he denied.
 
1649 Cromwell comes to Ireland

Oliver Cromwell, Lord Lieutenant and Commander of the English Army in Ireland stepped ashore from the ship John at Ringsend in Dublin on 15 August 1649. His mission was to re-take Ireland and re-establish English rule, to suppress all royalist support and avenge the massacres of Protestant settlers in the 1641 Rebellion.

Cromwell's campaign started in Drogheda, County Louth on the 10 September 1649. He called on the town's Royal Commander, Sir John Aston, to surrender which was refused. The town fell under heavy bombardment from the English artillery. English troops entered the town, under orders from Cromwell himself, killing all in their sight, especially Catholic priests. Some 3,500 men. women and children were killed in the two days of plunder and murder. This massacre signalled Cromwell's intent that other towns would face the same fate if they resisted his forces. As a result, the nearby towns in the north-west of Ireland such as Trim and Newry were evacuated while Carlingford and Dundalk surrendered.

Cromwell then marched to the south-east of the country. He arrived with his army in Wexford Town on 1 October 1649. After unsuccessfully calling for the surrender of Wexford's Commander Sinnott and his 3000 men, the Siege of Wexford began on 11 October. Over 1,500 soldiers and civilians were slaughtered by the English troops in the ensuing battle. A small garrison of English soldiers were left in Wexford town while Cromwell turned his attention to the neighbouring Wexford town of New Ross. After a gallant defence, New Ross was evacuated.

Cromwell spent Christmas 1649 in Youghal, County Cork resting with his troops. Henry Ireton, Cromwell's son-in-law, was appointed Cromwell's Deputy in December.

In Spring 1650, Cromwell turned his attention to Kilkenny, which had been the seat of the Irish Confederates and Irish Parliament in 1641-1642. Kilkenny fell in March 1650. The County Tipperary towns of Fethard, Clonmel and Cashel also succumbed to the might of the English Commonwealth Army.

By May 1650, Ireland had been successfully placed under English rule once again. On the 26 May 1650 Oliver Cromwell left Ireland on board the frigate President Bradshaw. His harsh campaign is still indelibly imprinted in Irish memory but he received a hero's welcome on his return to England.


Ireton then took control of the Irish campaign, defeating renewed resistance in Ulster in June 1650. Waterford City surrendered to the English forces on 10 August 1850. Limerick City was besieged in June 1650, surrendering on 27 October 1650. Finally, Galway, the last remaining town in Irish control, was offered identical terms for surrender as those offered in Limerick on 7 November 1650. The re-conquest of Ireland was complete.
 
"I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death of Labour
and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still
salute him
and will salute him forever
"

I've always wondered what he meant by that? It doesn't make sense. :confused:

My interpretation was always to do with the fact that Cromwell is seen by many as the founder of English parliamentary democracy. He gave parliament a real decision-making role in British society, and when the monarchy finally returned, real power still lay with parliament. I think that's what Moz is saying here - Cromwell is to blame for all the Labour and Tory MPs we have running our country at the moment.

As for the monarchy saluting him, I'm less sure, but I thought it's Morrissey pointing out the irony of the fact that the monarchy has now been reduced to a mere support to a decision-making process which was essentially created by a man who wanted to do away with the monarchy. By supporting that system - opening parliament, etc. - they are, in effect, saluting the man who cut off the king's head.
 
Back
Top Bottom