Very early Smiths gigs

DavidA

Junior Member
I've found a couple of Smiths gigs referenced that don't show up on any official history.

The first is this one describing their second ever gig in November 1982. I'm unsure where the Portland Hotel is. Maybe here?
The second is this one which was a gig Johnny remembers well sometime mid-1983 in Glasgow at Night Moves. More information here.

Anyone have any information on either of those gigs? Or others in that early time?
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
I've found a couple of Smiths gigs referenced that don't show up on any official history.

The first is this one describing their second ever gig in November 1982. I'm unsure where the Portland Hotel is. Maybe here?
The second is this one which was a gig Johnny remembers well sometime mid-1983 in Glasgow at Night Moves. More information here.

Anyone have any information on either of those gigs? Or others in that early time?
The Omega one mentioned here previously:
Yes, it's likely the Manchester hotel Marr stayed/lived in at one point.
Hook's How Not To Run A Club has early club lineups and the 2 bands definitely crossed paths in the early days - so this is highly probable.
The Night Moves gig appears to be a given as far as I'm concerned, although the date is debated as 9 or 10th.
Regards,
FWD.

Side note: there's approx 45 gigs recorded as happening from 82-83.
Of those, 29 are known full setlists and 3 are partial. That leaves 13 with no setlists and the above don't feature in that count either.
(Things like the Hammersmith, July 24, '83 happening or not remains debated too).
 

DavidA

Junior Member
Oh, that's interesting. Thank you. I'd always assumed that the gigographies detailed by Johnny Rogan and Simon Goddard were complete. The completist in me would like to know every day but I suppose not many people were paying attention in the early days. Plus, I suppose it's not hugely important.

I just bought How Not To Run A Club but there wasn't too much about The Smiths in there. See below. Maybe Joe Moss would have some information if he were still alive.

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Geoffrey Ingram

Active Member
There is one slight issue overlooked here, that shows that The Smiths did not perform on that November 82 date - the band line up.
Dale Hibbert only played one gig - the debut gig at The Ritz.
Andy Rourke's debut gig was at The Manhattan Sound in January 83 - credited as The Smiths 2nd gig.
So if this November gig did take place then who was on bass?
When Dale turned up for band practice and was informed his services were no longer required, it was Andy Rourke in the rehearsal room in his place.
So my guess is if the November gig was originally scheduled, the band pulled out due to Andy having to learn the songs. They went from performing three original songs at The Ritz to ten performed at Manhattan Sound so maybe the band as a whole were not ready yet.
As for the poster, I find it strange that The Smiths name is given so much prominence given that they had only played one gig, usually the support band's name would be much smaller unless they were more well known and bound to attract a crowd.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Yes, poster 1 appears not to have taken place, but has provenance.
The Night Moves appears real and Marr's recollection adds validity.
That said, information on 'The Hip Operation' is very limited. It would be nice to have some validation of them supporting.
Regards,
FWD.
 

Geoffrey Ingram

Active Member
Insightful reply. Thank you.

Yes, it was almost certainly cancelled and the fact that they switched bassists seems like a like reason. The auction for the poster also seemed to reach the conclusion that it didn't happen, as you can see on this Facebook post.

Animal Nightlife were doing gigs at the same time in Manchester, as can be seen in this Hacienda schedule, so I'm fairly confident the poster is real.
Thanks - actually just did a bit of online digging (mainly due to Famous When Dead's baffling reply - which I see he / she has sensibly since deleted / edited).

What I found was Andy Rourke saying he only had 2 weeks to prepare for the Manhattan Sound gig (25th January) and another source backing that up by saying Dale was disposed of in December 82.

So (according to that source) Dale was around the band for that November gig - had it taken place - but clearly it didn't take place as he only played the debut gig at The Ritz.
 
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Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Thanks - actually just did a bit of online digging (mainly due to Famous When Dead's baffling reply - which I see he / she has sensibly since deleted / edited).

What I found was Andy Rourke saying he only had 2 weeks to prepare for the Manhattan Sound gig (25th January) and another source backing that up by saying Dale was disposed of in December 82.

So (according to that source) Dale was around the band for that November gig - had it taken place - but clearly it didn't take place as he only played the debut gig at The Ritz.
Famous When Dead had just woken up and replied as if Marr had given an interview about the Portland Hotel gig not Night Moves.
After a mouthful of coffee, it was immediately noticed & changed 6 minutes thereafter.
You had it right first edit: He.
Bafflingly yours,
FWD.
 

MrShoes

"Ooo, there's goobers on his bod." - Ted Cruz
Subscriber
Reading this thread is like watching/reading a mystery thriller unfold! Far better detective work than an episode of Scooby Doo !
 

Erik

#23
Famous When Dead had just woken up and replied as if Marr had given an interview about the Portland Hotel gig not Night Moves.
After a mouthful of coffee, it was immediately noticed & changed 6 minutes thereafter.
You had it right first edit: He.
Bafflingly yours,
FWD.
Because you are born, born, born!
 
B

Boomer

Guest
I was chatting to a neighbour I sometimes have a drink with in the local pubs a few weeks ago, who was at Manhattan when Morrissey and Johnny booked the gig. He said that they hung around for the rest of the afternoon drinking and chatting.

This fella was quite involved in a lot of the Manchester music scene at the time, but just happened to be in there in the afternoon because his friend ran the place. He knows I’m into my music, and from time to time he drops a little nugget from his past. He’s an Architect, but not sure what he was up to at the time.
 
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