Morrissey Interview 2022. - Sam Esty Rayner / YouTube (November 27, 2022): Difference between revisions

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<youtube>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WTH6288UG8</youtube>
<youtube>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WTH6288UG8</youtube>


By [[Mention::Fiona Dodwell]]
Questions by [[Mention::Fiona Dodwell]]


Description:
Description:


Premiered on YouTube Nov 27, 2022
Premiered on YouTube Nov 27, 2022.


In his first filmed interview since 2015, Morrissey speaks on his best album to date.  
In his first filmed interview since 2015, Morrissey speaks on his best album to date.  
Line 15: Line 15:


==Transcript==
==Transcript==
'''Morrissey, I thought a good place to start is with ''Bonfire Of Teenagers'', the album. Obviously we haven't seen the release of it yet can you tell us what the status of that is?'''
Adapted from the YouTube transcript.
 
'''Morrissey, I thought a good place to start is with ''[[Mention::Bonfire Of Teenagers]]'', the album. Obviously we haven't seen the release of it yet can you tell us what the status of that is?'''


It's very good it's about to be announced and released very, very quickly.
It's very good it's about to be announced and released very, very quickly.
Line 27: Line 29:
Yes, it's on its way.
Yes, it's on its way.


'''Excellent'''
'''Excellent.'''


Finally. It's been a long claw, crawl, but it's on its way and I'm very pleased and it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful.
Finally. It's been a long claw, crawl, but it's on its way and I'm very pleased and it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful.
Line 45: Line 47:
'''Do you feel an extra like sense of pressure when you're performing songs to a crowd that perhaps are unfamiliar with the work or does it not really cross your mind?'''
'''Do you feel an extra like sense of pressure when you're performing songs to a crowd that perhaps are unfamiliar with the work or does it not really cross your mind?'''


No, because I think you should be able to interest anybody, with any song really. You can't simply say, "Well, I'm only good for that song. I'm only interesting with
No, because I think you should be able to interest anybody, with any song really. You can't simply say, "Well, I'm only good for that song. I'm only interesting with that song, I can only sing that song." You have to be able to sing ''absolutely anything'' and do it in a way that interests people. And that I think is the measure of somebody who really deserves to be on the stage.
 
that song, I can only sing that song." You have to be able to sing ''absolutely anything'' and do it in a way that interests people. And that I think is the measure of somebody who really deserves to be on the stage.


'''Yeah. That's actually one of the things that I admire about you as a performer. You don't patronize your audience by doing the same things over and over you. You don't shy away from doing perhaps rare tracks or obscure songs. I mean, is that a deliberate choice to mix things up or do you literally go with your gut instinct with what you pick?'''
'''Yeah. That's actually one of the things that I admire about you as a performer. You don't patronize your audience by doing the same things over and over you. You don't shy away from doing perhaps rare tracks or obscure songs. I mean, is that a deliberate choice to mix things up or do you literally go with your gut instinct with what you pick?'''
Line 55: Line 55:
'''Exactly. And the shows have had such a fantastic reception as well.'''
'''Exactly. And the shows have had such a fantastic reception as well.'''


Incredible. Absolutely incredible,  I am really dazed by it and obviously thrilled, obviously thrilled
Incredible. Absolutely incredible,  I am really dazed by it and obviously thrilled, obviously thrilled.
 
I think you have probably one
 
of the most die-hard Army of fans that
 
I've ever witnessed like they travel all
 
the world they're incredible continents
 
they they Camp outside venues they do
 
how does that feel to you like after
 
like years you come on that still that
 
level of respect and love I think it
 
it's just because I'm I'm a real person
 
and they know I'm true and it's actually
 
quite rare really to have that kind of
 
audience you can be a stadium band and
 
you can play an enormous to millions of
 
people every night but nobody wants to
 
go near your stage you are a brand and
 
you are a business but I'm not like that
 
I I wasn't made by the music industry I
 
was made by the people and there's a
 
huge difference when you look at artists
 
you can tell all of those who were put
 
there by the music industry you will be
 
very big now you'll be very famous and
 
there are people who are of the people
 
there are singers who are of the people
 
of which I am one and often that works
 
against you because the industry don't
 
particularly like people like me and the
 
music press don't particularly like
 
people like me because they know I'm
 
older people they know it isn't just a
 
money has been injected into this person
 
nothing has been injected into me I can
 
assure you so they don't know what to do
 
with people like me they think this is
 
odd it's almost like there's a
 
preference to manufacture artists so
 
that they can control they understand
 
manufactured artists they can get rid of
 
them when it's they're bought you know
 
when industry is bored with them they
 
just get rid of them yeah but you can't


with people like me unless I'm shocked
'''I think you have probably one of the most die-hard army of fans that I've ever witnessed. They travel all over the world, across continents, they camp outside venues...'''


because it feels like you've made that
They're incredible... they do.


personal connection with your audience
'''How does that feel to you, after the years you command still that level of respect and love?'''


and that's that makes a big difference
I think it's because I'm a real person and they know I'm true. And it's actually quite rare, really, to have that kind of audience. You can be a stadium band and you can play enormous... to millions of people every night but nobody wants to go near your stage. You are a brand and you are a business but I'm not like that. I wasn't made by the music industry, I was made by the people. And there's a huge difference. When you look at artists you can tell all of those who were put there by the music industry. "You will be very big now you'll be very famous." And there are people who are of the people. There are singers who are of the people of which I am one. And often that works against you because the industry don't particularly like people like me. And the music press don't particularly like people like me because they know I'm of the people, they know it isn't just a "money has been injected into this person." Nothing has been injected into me I can assure you. So they don't know what to do with people like me, they think "this is odd."


well I didn't make it because of radio
'''It's almost like there's a preference to manufacture artists so that they can control them.'''


radio British radio was never on my side
They understand manufactured artists. They can get rid of them when industry is bored with them, they just get rid of them. But you can't with people like me... unless... I'm shot.


and
'''Because it feels like you've made that personal connection with your audience and that makes a big difference.'''


so it's gratified you just do it for the
Well, I didn't make it because of radio, British radio was never on my side. So it's gratifying.


love of yes it's it's very very genuine
'''You just do it for the love of music?'''


it's very genuine
Yes, it's very, very genuine, very genuine.


um from bonfire of teenagers just going
'''From ''Bonfire Of Teenagers,'' just going back to the album, do you have any favorite tracks on there?'''


back to the album do you have any
It isn't possible really, they're all the same to me in the sense that I love them so much. So whichever ones that the record label choose to be released as singles and so forth it doesn't matter because it's all great, it's all wonderful to me.


favorite tracks on there I mean yeah
'''You sound very happy.'''


possible really it's the they're all the
I know, it's worrying, it's worrying.


same to me in the sense that I love them
You've been part of the music world for so long now Morrissey. I'm just wondering what would you say in your opinion, in your experience is your biggest frustration that you've had and that you see?


so much so whichever ones that the
Well the blessing is the frustration because you're outside the gates and you don't, I don't really have anything to do with the music industry and I don't think I ever have. And that's okay but sometimes you think, "Well I think I ''do'' deserve to be on the radio I think I ''do'' deserve to be included ''somewhere''. But it doesn't ever happen, they don't include me ''anywhere''. Even just for perseverance and just to shut me up they don't include me. It's very strange, very peculiar.


record label choose to be released as
'''It's shocking as well because they must see the audience is still there for you.'''


singles and so forth it doesn't matter
They don't care, they don't care. If you don't chase them and say, "Please do this for me, please..." They just think "No..." No, they want to be chased they want to be wooed.


because it's all great it's all
'''But you're not having...'''


wonderful to me okay you sound very
I can't do it, I can't.


happy
'''I know that you've probably been asked about this quite a lot but how do you personally cope with seeing yourself fictionalized and caricatured by the press so much? I mean is it difficult or are you so used to it?'''


worrying
I'm used to it but it isn't positive, it's always ridiculous I think, mostly. As far as I can tell. But, I think if you put yourself out there, if you step out there, you have to expect it, really. It's going to happen and it happens to everybody to a degree, if they're interesting. It doesn't happen to people who are not very interesting.


um you've been part of the music world
'''Exactly, but the people that are seen as not interesting often the ones they're just frightened to actually say what's on their mind and what they believe.'''


for so long now Maurice I'm just
Usually, there is nothing. (sighs)


wondering
'''Are you currently working on anything else? I don't want to jump forward too much because of the new album but I have read somewhere that you've been writing and recording again is there any truth to that?'''


what would you say in your opinion in
Yes, we have written the the follow-up album and that will be recorded soon but it won't be released soon because ''Bonfire Of Teenagers'' must have a chance to breathe and blow and so forth. But, it will be recorded soon, yes.


your experience as your biggest
'''That is one thing that's actually really impressive. I mean, looking at the length of your career, other artists that might be in that position would often slow down whereas actually, if anything, you've become more regular, very prolific.'''


frustration that you've had and that you
Yes... Well, that's a nice word someone would have other words but... it's all I think about. I haven't changed. it's all I think about. All day, all night all I think about is the voice, the song. It's all I think about, I am trapped, dedicated, call it what you will, but it's my life.


see well the blessing is the frustration
'''You'd say it's your meaning then?'''


because you're outside the gates and you
It's my purpose, really. You won't see me on a golf course or on a horse somewhere... I don't do anything, really.


don't you don't really have anything to
'''Just all music...'''


do with I don't really have anything to
People only ever see me running into, I don't know, the bread shop. But otherwise, I don't really exist and that's okay, that's okay.


do with the music industry and I don't
'''Looking at everything that I've personally seen in recent years of the music industry, one thing I would say is actually how bland it's become. There's so few people that are willing to stand up and stand out for anything that they're almost standing for nothing and they're not really expressing anything, but you're the opposite of that. Was this just part of who you are? Or did you have a like a mental decision like I want to I want to get people challenged and thinking...
'''


think I ever have
I don't really have a choice, but the thing is you have to make it interesting for people. You have to make music interesting for people and you have to make your position interesting. In the late 90s, I was interviewed a great deal and I constantly spoke of a ''dumbing down'' that was happening in England everywhere. Television, television commercials, everything to do with British life, it was just aimed at the moron. And that has absolutely happened now. If you watch British television commercials, they're ''insufferable''. The noise and the content is always the same. People dancing in six million pound kitchens, that's all people do in Britain is ''dance, dance, dance, dance''. They deliver a pizza, they're ''dancing, dancing'', ... It's really now moronic and that shows everywhere and music really... not many people have faith in music anymore. And because a lot of things have changed financially in the music industry, labels now can just get rid of you if your album doesn't go instantly platinum. There are so many younger bands who have done really well with their first album, maybe they reach 23, 22, 21. It's not enough. they're dumped they're not allowed to make a second album. Whereas years ago, as you might know, people could make five flops and the label would stick by them. Now, the labels are quite bloodless they will just get rid of you if you say anything that they don't agree with.


and that's okay but sometimes you think
'''They won't see you through the journey anymore...'''


well I think I do deserve to be on the
No, no, they're not interested. Now they talk all about, "Oh, we must have diversity, diversity, diversity..." Which is diversity of people that you don't know and it just means, it's just another word for conformity. It's the new way of saying conformity. "Diversity." You don't see anything diverse anywhere, it's all conformity.


radio I think I do deserve to be
'''It's having the opposite effect, in fact...'''


included somewhere but it doesn't ever
It is, because when people talk about diversity, they don't think about the great things that ''we don't have'' in common. And those things are ignored and they always made countries very interesting. Because you could travel to Germany. you could see the most incredible culture. You go to Italy see the most incredible culture. Now they just want everything to be the same, the same, the same. So, diversity means ''conformity''. It doesn't mean "avant-garde" or "Let's make really interesting, strange art." It means "''box everybody''." "Diversity," I think is a dreadful word. Pin it to anything and that situation is finished. It's a terrible word, terrible.


happen they don't include me anywhere
'''Do you have an opinion on social media? Because whenever I dip in and have a look, I think actually the the groupthink and the extreme opinions that are pushed there are actually part of this problem.'''


even just for perseverance and just to
I think so, because now everybody is an expert critic. ''Everybody'' is an expert scientist, ''they know everything''. They have the chance to review everything and destroy people. And if they can get their friends to join in and make a campaign of "Let's get rid of such a body." I think it more or less happened to [[Mention::Germaine Greer]], [[Mention::J. K. Rowling]], the two perfect examples. "We all get together and try and get rid of these people and don't stop harping on about how dangerous they are..." Then, it's pretty lethal. And I think there will be a way to control it eventually but nobody knows how, yet. And I don't think the political elite like it very much because if you notice politicians are going rapidly as well. And that's because of social media and people saying, "I don't like you." Which they couldn't do in the past, but now they can.


shut me up they don't include me it's
'''Those two sides to that coin, isn't there? I quite often look at some of the things on there and think the witch hunts aren't really over are they, entirely, in one degree or in a sense?'''


very strange it's very peculiar shocking
No, the thing is they ''desperately'' need to find a witch. They have to find a witch, they have to find somebody who is disgraceful and horrible and blah, blah, blah, blah... You can see the ''joy'' in people. Do you remember [[Mention::Mary Whitehouse]]?


as well because they must see the
'''Yes.'''


audience is still there for you they
The ''joy,'' so many people have turned into Mary Whitehouse, trying to cancel. "I'm offended!" As if you being offended means that you're intelligent, it just means you're an idiot. We're in a Mary Whitehouse culture now, where everybody must say, "Stop, I don't like that. Get it off the planet." People like that I think are dreadful people. Walk the other way... don't look... switch off... listen to something else... bake a cake.


don't care they don't care they don't
'''You don't have to stop it for other people.'''


care about it if you don't chase them
But also, we're also in a in a protest culture, like the late 60s when everybody loved to get on the streets and protest and be angry about something and to march up and down. Everybody wants to do that now, they want to be irate about something. Which is okay, but you might be wasting the time. (rolls eyes)


and say please do this for me please
'''I wanted to touch upon animal rights. It's such a big thing to you, it's been a current theme in your music and you've spoken out about it in interviews. I personally have noticed a positive shift, going in restaurants and cafes it's much more commonplace to find vegan and vegetarian options. Do you feel like we're now on the right trajectory or are we too far to feel hopeful?'''


please and they just think no no they
I think it's really fascinating, because I'm old enough to remember when it was a really stuck situation. You couldn't do anything about anything and if you said the word "''vegetarian"'' you were ridiculed beyond belief. But now I'm just so happy about the changes everywhere. I'm really, really happy. I know I have spoken endlessly about this in the past but I feel almost justified now. Because there's a great reluctance but they're doing it anyway, They're reluctant to to give you any credence, but it's happening anyway because they want to make money. So if you have eight friends who go out to a restaurant and two of your friends happen to be vegan, then that restaurant is going to lose ''everybody'' if they can't cater for the two vegans. So everybody's just, "Oh God, we have to do it now." And everybody is becoming aware of animals as beautiful creatures who have done so much for us. ''They've done so much for us. Give them a rest. Leave them alone.'' They've done so much for the human race and they should be rewarded now and they should be allowed to live, I think.


want to be chased they want to be wooed
'''That's a massive thing you've done Morrissey. I'd say what you're one of the leading figures that have actually highlighted the issue.'''


I can't
Well, I try, I try my best.


um how have you personally I mean I know
'''Thank you so much.'''


that you've probably been asked about
Thank you.


this quite a lot but how do you
{{Page
 
personally cope with seeing yourself
 
fictionalized and caricatured by the
 
Press so much I mean
 
is it difficult or do you so used to it
 
you're I'm used to it but it isn't
 
positive it's always
 
ridiculous I think mostly As far as I
 
can tell but I think you you put
 
yourself out there you step out there
 
and
 
you have to expect it really it's going
 
going to happen and it happens to
 
everybody
 
to a degree if they're interesting yeah
 
it doesn't happen to people who are not
 
very interested exactly but the people
 
that are seen as not interesting often
 
the ones they're just frightened to
 
actually say
 
what's on their mind and what they
 
believe usually there is nothing
 
[Applause]
 
um are you currently working on anything
 
else no I don't want to jump forward too
 
much because of the new album but I have
 
read somewhere that you've been writing
 
and recording again is there any priest
 
yes we have written the the follow-up um
 
and that will be recorded soon but it
 
won't be released soon because bonfire
 
of teenagers must have a chance to
 
breathe and blow and so forth yeah
 
so watch it will be recorded soon yes
 
um that is one thing that's actually
 
really impressive I mean looking at the
 
length of your career
 
other artists that might be in that
 
position
 
would often slow down whereas actually
 
if anything you've become
 
more yes regular like you very prolific
 
well that's a nice word someone would
 
have other words but uh uh it's it's all
 
I think about I haven't changed it's all
 
I think about all day all night all I
 
think about is the voice the song
 
is all I think about I am trapped
 
dedicated call it what you will but it's
 
my life you'd say it's your meaning and
 
everything that's my purpose really I
 
don't you won't see me on a golf course
 
or on a horse somewhere
 
uh I don't do anything really
 
just all music people only ever see me
 
running into I don't know the bread shop
 
but otherwise otherwise I don't really
 
exist
 
and that's okay that's okay
 
um looking at um
 
everything that I've personally seen in
 
recent years of the music industry one
 
thing I would say is
 
actually how bland it's become there's
 
so few people that are willing to stand
 
up and stand out for anything that
 
they're almost standing for nothing and
 
they're not really expressing anything
 
but you're the opposite of that I mean
 
was this just part of who you are or did
 
you have a like a mental decision like I
 
want to I want to get people challenged
 
and thinking and I don't really have a
 
choice but it but the thing is you have
 
to make it interesting for people you
 
have to make music interesting for
 
people and you have to make your
 
position interesting in the late 90s I I
 
was interviewed a great deal and I I I
 
constantly spoke of a dumbing Down that
 
was happening in England everywhere
 
television television commercials
 
everything to do with British life it
 
was just aimed at the and that has
 
absolutely happened now I mean if you
 
watch British television commercials
 
they're insufferable the noise and the
 
content is always the same people
 
dancing in six million pound kitchens
 
that's all people do in Britain is dance
 
dance dance dance dance they deliver a
 
pizza the dancing dancing it's really
 
now moronic and that shows everywhere
 
and you music really
 
not many people have faith in music
 
anymore and because a lot of things have
 
changed financially in the music
 
industry labels now can just get rid of
 
you if your album doesn't go instantly
 
Platinum there's so many younger bands
 
who have done really well with their
 
first album maybe they reach 23 22-21
 
it's not enough they're dumped they're
 
not allowed to make a second album
 
whereas years ago as you might know
 
people could make five flops and the
 
label would stick by them now the labels
 
are quite bloodless they will just get
 
rid of you if you say anything that they
 
don't agree with they're not saying they
 
won't see you through the Journey
 
anymore no no they're not interested
 
they're not and that's you know that now
 
they talk all about oh we must have
 
diversity diversity diversity which is p
 
diversity of people that you don't know
 
and it just means it's just another word
 
for Conformity it's the new way of
 
saying Conformity diversity you don't
 
see anything diverse anyway it's all
 
Conformity it's having the opposite
 
effect in fact it is because when people
 
talk about diversity they don't think
 
about the great things that we don't
 
have in common and those things are
 
ignored and they always made
 
country is very interesting because you
 
could travel to Germany you could see
 
the most incredible culture you go to
 
Italy see the most incredible culture
 
now they just want everything to be the
 
same the same yeah so diversity means
 
Conformity it doesn't mean let's it
 
doesn't mean avant-gard or let's make
 
really interesting strange Arts it means
 
box everybody yeah diversity I think is
 
the Dreadful word pin it to anything and
 
that
 
situation is finished it's a terrible
 
word terrible do you have an opinion on
 
social media because whenever I dip dip
 
in and have a look I think actually the
 
the group think and the extreme
 
opinions that are pushed they're
 
actually part of this problem I think so
 
because now everybody is an expert
 
critic everybody is an expert scientist
 
they know everything they have the
 
chance to review everything and Destroy
 
people yeah and if they can get their
 
friends to join in and make a campaign
 
of let's get rid of such a body you know
 
I think it more or less happened to
 
Jermaine Greer JK Rowling the two
 
perfect example if we all get together
 
and try and get rid of these people and
 
don't stop harping on about how
 
dangerous they are then it's it's pretty
 
lethal and I think there will be a way
 
to control it eventually but nobody
 
knows how yet and I don't think the
 
political Elite like it very much
 
because if you notice politicians are
 
going rapidly as well and that's because
 
of social media and people saying I
 
don't like you which they couldn't do in
 
the past but no they can't there's two
 
sides to that point really isn't there
 
but I quite often look at some of the
 
things on there and think
 
the witch hunts aren't really over are
 
they entirely well in one degree yeah no
 
one the thing is they desperately need
 
to find a witch they have to find a
 
witch
 
who is disgraceful and horrible and blah
 
blah blah blah blah blah and uh you can
 
see the joy in people do you remember
 
Mary White's house yes the joy so many
 
people have turned into Mary White's
 
house trying to cancel I don't know I'm
 
offended as of you being offended
 
that you're intelligent it just means
 
you're an idiot
 
um but this Mary White we're in a merry
 
White House culture now where everybody
 
must say stop I don't like that get us
 
off the planet and
 
people like that I think are a dreadful
 
people yeah just walk the other way
 
don't look switch off listen to
 
something else bake a cake you don't
 
have to stop it for other people yeah
 
but also
 
we're also in a in a protest culture
 
like the late 60s when everybody loved
 
to go out and be get on the streets and
 
protest and be angry about something and
 
to March up and down everybody wants to
 
do that now they want to be irate about
 
something
 
which is okay but uh you might be
 
wasting the time yeah um I wanted to
 
touch upon animal rights it's such a big
 
thing to you it's been a current theme
 
in your music and you've spoken out
 
about it in interviews um I personally
 
have noticed a positive shift going in
 
restaurants and cafes it's much more
 
commonplace to find vegan and vegetarian
 
options do you feel like we're now on
 
the right trajectory or are we too far
 
to I think I think it's really
 
fascinating
 
because I'm old enough to remember when
 
it was really stuck situation you
 
couldn't do anything about anything and
 
if you said the word vegetarian you were
 
ridiculed beyond belief but now I'm just
 
so happy about the changes everywhere
 
I'm really really happy and
 
um
 
so I know I have spoken endlessly
 
about this in the past but I feel
 
almost Justified now yeah because
 
there's a great reluctance what they're
 
doing it anyway they're reluctant to to
 
give you
 
um any Credence yeah but it's happening
 
anyway because they want to make money
 
so if you if you have eight friends who
 
go out to a restaurant and two of your
 
friends happen to be vegan then that
 
restaurant is going to lose everybody if
 
they can't cater for the two vegans so
 
everybody just saying oh God we have to
 
do it now and everybody is becoming
 
aware of animals as
 
Beautiful Creatures who have done so
 
much for us yeah they've done so much
 
for us give them a rest instead of
 
taking leave them alone they've done so
 
much for the human race and they should
 
be rewarded now and they should be
 
allowed to live I think I think that's a
 
massive thing you've done Morrissey like
 
I'd say what you're one of the leading
 
figures that have actually highlighted
 
the issue well so I shot my best
 
thank you thank you enjoy{{Page
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|Date=2022-11-27
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Latest revision as of 11:01, 25 February 2023

Information

Questions by Fiona Dodwell

Description:

Premiered on YouTube Nov 27, 2022.

In his first filmed interview since 2015, Morrissey speaks on his best album to date.

Recorded October 9, 2022 at The London Palladium during his triumphant U.K tour.
Directed by Sam Esty Rayner Photography.

Transcript

Adapted from the YouTube transcript.

Morrissey, I thought a good place to start is with Bonfire Of Teenagers, the album. Obviously we haven't seen the release of it yet can you tell us what the status of that is?

It's very good it's about to be announced and released very, very quickly.

Brilliant.

So I will leave it up to others to announce that and it will be soon, very soon.

It is on its way?

Yes, it's on its way.

Excellent.

Finally. It's been a long claw, crawl, but it's on its way and I'm very pleased and it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful.

You sound really happy with it.

I'm so happy with it, so happy with it. It's incredible because I've been around a long time and if you can still make music that really excites you, I think that's unusual. I think a lot of people who've been around for 40 years can't quite do that. And I'm not being snippety, I don't think they can. I don't think so. But here, suddenly in my life I have this album which is really... I know people always say it's the best... which actually is. It actually is. I'm grateful.

It must be a great feeling after all these years to still know that you're in that place...

It is, it is... and I have made lots of music over those years. It's been pretty constant so having another stretch is unbelievable because (pounds chair) I'm not 22.

I wanted to sort of say I've been checking the set lists of the dates you've been doing recently and you've done a lot of songs from Bonfire Of Teenagers.

Yes

Do you feel an extra like sense of pressure when you're performing songs to a crowd that perhaps are unfamiliar with the work or does it not really cross your mind?

No, because I think you should be able to interest anybody, with any song really. You can't simply say, "Well, I'm only good for that song. I'm only interesting with that song, I can only sing that song." You have to be able to sing absolutely anything and do it in a way that interests people. And that I think is the measure of somebody who really deserves to be on the stage.

Yeah. That's actually one of the things that I admire about you as a performer. You don't patronize your audience by doing the same things over and over you. You don't shy away from doing perhaps rare tracks or obscure songs. I mean, is that a deliberate choice to mix things up or do you literally go with your gut instinct with what you pick?

I think they like it also. I think they like to hear off the beaten track songs. But the thing is, as long as you can do it and it's it's right and it's convincing and it's enjoyable, then it doesn't matter what you sing. It doesn't matter what you sing.

Exactly. And the shows have had such a fantastic reception as well.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible, I am really dazed by it and obviously thrilled, obviously thrilled.

I think you have probably one of the most die-hard army of fans that I've ever witnessed. They travel all over the world, across continents, they camp outside venues...

They're incredible... they do.

How does that feel to you, after the years you command still that level of respect and love?

I think it's because I'm a real person and they know I'm true. And it's actually quite rare, really, to have that kind of audience. You can be a stadium band and you can play enormous... to millions of people every night but nobody wants to go near your stage. You are a brand and you are a business but I'm not like that. I wasn't made by the music industry, I was made by the people. And there's a huge difference. When you look at artists you can tell all of those who were put there by the music industry. "You will be very big now you'll be very famous." And there are people who are of the people. There are singers who are of the people of which I am one. And often that works against you because the industry don't particularly like people like me. And the music press don't particularly like people like me because they know I'm of the people, they know it isn't just a "money has been injected into this person." Nothing has been injected into me I can assure you. So they don't know what to do with people like me, they think "this is odd."

It's almost like there's a preference to manufacture artists so that they can control them.

They understand manufactured artists. They can get rid of them when industry is bored with them, they just get rid of them. But you can't with people like me... unless... I'm shot.

Because it feels like you've made that personal connection with your audience and that makes a big difference.

Well, I didn't make it because of radio, British radio was never on my side. So it's gratifying.

You just do it for the love of music?

Yes, it's very, very genuine, very genuine.

From Bonfire Of Teenagers, just going back to the album, do you have any favorite tracks on there?

It isn't possible really, they're all the same to me in the sense that I love them so much. So whichever ones that the record label choose to be released as singles and so forth it doesn't matter because it's all great, it's all wonderful to me.

You sound very happy.

I know, it's worrying, it's worrying.

You've been part of the music world for so long now Morrissey. I'm just wondering what would you say in your opinion, in your experience is your biggest frustration that you've had and that you see?

Well the blessing is the frustration because you're outside the gates and you don't, I don't really have anything to do with the music industry and I don't think I ever have. And that's okay but sometimes you think, "Well I think I do deserve to be on the radio I think I do deserve to be included somewhere. But it doesn't ever happen, they don't include me anywhere. Even just for perseverance and just to shut me up they don't include me. It's very strange, very peculiar.

It's shocking as well because they must see the audience is still there for you.

They don't care, they don't care. If you don't chase them and say, "Please do this for me, please..." They just think "No..." No, they want to be chased they want to be wooed.

But you're not having...

I can't do it, I can't.

I know that you've probably been asked about this quite a lot but how do you personally cope with seeing yourself fictionalized and caricatured by the press so much? I mean is it difficult or are you so used to it?

I'm used to it but it isn't positive, it's always ridiculous I think, mostly. As far as I can tell. But, I think if you put yourself out there, if you step out there, you have to expect it, really. It's going to happen and it happens to everybody to a degree, if they're interesting. It doesn't happen to people who are not very interesting.

Exactly, but the people that are seen as not interesting often the ones they're just frightened to actually say what's on their mind and what they believe.

Usually, there is nothing. (sighs)

Are you currently working on anything else? I don't want to jump forward too much because of the new album but I have read somewhere that you've been writing and recording again is there any truth to that?

Yes, we have written the the follow-up album and that will be recorded soon but it won't be released soon because Bonfire Of Teenagers must have a chance to breathe and blow and so forth. But, it will be recorded soon, yes.

That is one thing that's actually really impressive. I mean, looking at the length of your career, other artists that might be in that position would often slow down whereas actually, if anything, you've become more regular, very prolific.

Yes... Well, that's a nice word someone would have other words but... it's all I think about. I haven't changed. it's all I think about. All day, all night all I think about is the voice, the song. It's all I think about, I am trapped, dedicated, call it what you will, but it's my life.

You'd say it's your meaning then?

It's my purpose, really. You won't see me on a golf course or on a horse somewhere... I don't do anything, really.

Just all music...

People only ever see me running into, I don't know, the bread shop. But otherwise, I don't really exist and that's okay, that's okay.

Looking at everything that I've personally seen in recent years of the music industry, one thing I would say is actually how bland it's become. There's so few people that are willing to stand up and stand out for anything that they're almost standing for nothing and they're not really expressing anything, but you're the opposite of that. Was this just part of who you are? Or did you have a like a mental decision like I want to I want to get people challenged and thinking...

I don't really have a choice, but the thing is you have to make it interesting for people. You have to make music interesting for people and you have to make your position interesting. In the late 90s, I was interviewed a great deal and I constantly spoke of a dumbing down that was happening in England everywhere. Television, television commercials, everything to do with British life, it was just aimed at the moron. And that has absolutely happened now. If you watch British television commercials, they're insufferable. The noise and the content is always the same. People dancing in six million pound kitchens, that's all people do in Britain is dance, dance, dance, dance. They deliver a pizza, they're dancing, dancing, ... It's really now moronic and that shows everywhere and music really... not many people have faith in music anymore. And because a lot of things have changed financially in the music industry, labels now can just get rid of you if your album doesn't go instantly platinum. There are so many younger bands who have done really well with their first album, maybe they reach 23, 22, 21. It's not enough. they're dumped they're not allowed to make a second album. Whereas years ago, as you might know, people could make five flops and the label would stick by them. Now, the labels are quite bloodless they will just get rid of you if you say anything that they don't agree with.

They won't see you through the journey anymore...

No, no, they're not interested. Now they talk all about, "Oh, we must have diversity, diversity, diversity..." Which is diversity of people that you don't know and it just means, it's just another word for conformity. It's the new way of saying conformity. "Diversity." You don't see anything diverse anywhere, it's all conformity.

It's having the opposite effect, in fact...

It is, because when people talk about diversity, they don't think about the great things that we don't have in common. And those things are ignored and they always made countries very interesting. Because you could travel to Germany. you could see the most incredible culture. You go to Italy see the most incredible culture. Now they just want everything to be the same, the same, the same. So, diversity means conformity. It doesn't mean "avant-garde" or "Let's make really interesting, strange art." It means "box everybody." "Diversity," I think is a dreadful word. Pin it to anything and that situation is finished. It's a terrible word, terrible.

Do you have an opinion on social media? Because whenever I dip in and have a look, I think actually the the groupthink and the extreme opinions that are pushed there are actually part of this problem.

I think so, because now everybody is an expert critic. Everybody is an expert scientist, they know everything. They have the chance to review everything and destroy people. And if they can get their friends to join in and make a campaign of "Let's get rid of such a body." I think it more or less happened to Germaine Greer, J. K. Rowling, the two perfect examples. "We all get together and try and get rid of these people and don't stop harping on about how dangerous they are..." Then, it's pretty lethal. And I think there will be a way to control it eventually but nobody knows how, yet. And I don't think the political elite like it very much because if you notice politicians are going rapidly as well. And that's because of social media and people saying, "I don't like you." Which they couldn't do in the past, but now they can.

Those two sides to that coin, isn't there? I quite often look at some of the things on there and think the witch hunts aren't really over are they, entirely, in one degree or in a sense?

No, the thing is they desperately need to find a witch. They have to find a witch, they have to find somebody who is disgraceful and horrible and blah, blah, blah, blah... You can see the joy in people. Do you remember Mary Whitehouse?

Yes.

The joy, so many people have turned into Mary Whitehouse, trying to cancel. "I'm offended!" As if you being offended means that you're intelligent, it just means you're an idiot. We're in a Mary Whitehouse culture now, where everybody must say, "Stop, I don't like that. Get it off the planet." People like that I think are dreadful people. Walk the other way... don't look... switch off... listen to something else... bake a cake.

You don't have to stop it for other people.

But also, we're also in a in a protest culture, like the late 60s when everybody loved to get on the streets and protest and be angry about something and to march up and down. Everybody wants to do that now, they want to be irate about something. Which is okay, but you might be wasting the time. (rolls eyes)

I wanted to touch upon animal rights. It's such a big thing to you, it's been a current theme in your music and you've spoken out about it in interviews. I personally have noticed a positive shift, going in restaurants and cafes it's much more commonplace to find vegan and vegetarian options. Do you feel like we're now on the right trajectory or are we too far to feel hopeful?

I think it's really fascinating, because I'm old enough to remember when it was a really stuck situation. You couldn't do anything about anything and if you said the word "vegetarian" you were ridiculed beyond belief. But now I'm just so happy about the changes everywhere. I'm really, really happy. I know I have spoken endlessly about this in the past but I feel almost justified now. Because there's a great reluctance but they're doing it anyway, They're reluctant to to give you any credence, but it's happening anyway because they want to make money. So if you have eight friends who go out to a restaurant and two of your friends happen to be vegan, then that restaurant is going to lose everybody if they can't cater for the two vegans. So everybody's just, "Oh God, we have to do it now." And everybody is becoming aware of animals as beautiful creatures who have done so much for us. They've done so much for us. Give them a rest. Leave them alone. They've done so much for the human race and they should be rewarded now and they should be allowed to live, I think.

That's a massive thing you've done Morrissey. I'd say what you're one of the leading figures that have actually highlighted the issue.

Well, I try, I try my best.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.


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