Enough of this gangsta rap crap. Real music will never die. Anyone can rap but not all can touch you with their lyrics like Moz and Mc culloch etc... And rap/rock sucks too. Are you rap or rock? choose one or the other. Jaguares rule too.

Hasta la pasta

Yikes! Morrissey fans using a word like "broad"? What's the world coming to?

If you think anyone can rap, then you obviously have no understanding of what it is or what it takes. Rapping is one of the most amazing musical styles around. To do it well, which Tupak Shakur did, is an amazing talent. Have you ever listened to Tupak's lyrics? Have you ever heard "Life Goes On" off disc 1 of his album All Eyez On Me? It's beauty rivals any lyrics Steven or anyone else has ever written. We're talking about a man that was built in and from the streets. For him to write like he does is amazing because his talent is so raw.

I don't argue against Steven being wonderful - heaven knows I adore him - but some of you should widen your horizons a bit.

Some of the attacks I don't even understand. "Wu Tang KKKlan"? You do realize that Wu-Tang are black?

Kixers Malixers, did you have any problem with the Stone Roses? They incorporated dance and rock better than any other guitar band so far and they wouldn't have been anything without the hybrid quality of their music. I haven't spoken to Ian in ages but believe me when I say that he would be appalled with the attitudes in here. Then he'd laugh and forget about it.

Regardless of what anyone says I do believe I was stating my opinion that rap is crap and was also agreeing with some fellow rockers. I also dont like rap being mixed in with rock. Something I do
believe I am able to do right? As for my not knowing what rap is about. Hang the rapper because the crap that he is constantly spewing it says nothing to me about my life! Long live real music.

There the ones who have taught people through their lyrics to live with a hardcore lifestyle. Why do you think that people that listen to rap are always violent, ready to fight, hopes someone "looks at them wrong" so they can get all hardcore on you. Then again I actually do know a few people who really don't like black people , but yet they listen to their music?? talk about being lost

I'm sorry whites praise the black culture to to much. I heard that there is going to be a "black Gap". ( gap meaning the retail store) Not that I like the Gap in the first place. It's like I always said "whites always get accused for being racist
, but when it comes to the blacks everything to them has to be about them. That's racist in it's self. Come on BET television. hhhmmmmm? now a black gap?? The original Gap isnt good enough for them, it doesn't fit their needs, it has to be black?? There's alot of things I could list but i'm done bithin now.

People like Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock should be hung by they're pretty white necks for mixing rock and rap. How disgracing is that to rock music? It is a bunch of noise and a bunch of yelling. There's just no soul in rap or that new grabage those talentless annoying idiots created.

I feel that we can be so much better than that. Before you start yelling, no, I'm not putting the spotlight on your Kixers Malixers. I actually think the artists you're referring to are worthless too - KidRock and Limp Biskit. But remember that there are some very talented artists creating some very wonderful music by crossing these musical boundaries. The innovators have always done that. Have you ever read the Beatles' early criticisms? If you dislike KidRock, say that you dislike him, but don't be so quick to reprove an entire style because of that bastard. Oops. I said that I wouldn't put the spotlight on you didn't I? Sorry baby. Mwah! You know you like the attention darling, admit it.

I think it's beautiful to see artists ignoring these silly divisions. It's all about unity to me. When I saw Ian wearing a t-shirt of Africa and singing about one love, I fell in love for the third time. Some of you could learn a few lessons from that beautiful man.

...and Moz is far sexier than Elvis ever could be, thank you.

My whole observation is that rap music is entirely racist.

For one, there are Latino and Asian rappers out there, long before there was a Kid Rock, Korn, or even Vanilla Ice. And, rather than being signed, they either had to disguise their ethnicities, or they stayed proud of their heritage (thus staying on the streets, unsigned, unsuccessful.) There is this one DJ named Theo--I think from LA--who disguises his Asian ethnicity, and publicly skates around any ethnic questions solely for the purpose of 'street props'. His excuse is 'I'm not a skin color, I'm just human', but if the hood finds out he's Asian, try to tell me they'll keep dancing to his beats.

And, there is a fallacy that all caucasian rappers 'suck'. Why? Because of Vanilla Ice, Eminem, and Marky Mark from Booger Nights. Are these guys the only caucasian rappers in the universe? There has to be at least one caucasian rapper that can flow better than DMX. And, some of the most successful rappers ever are three Jews--The Beastie Boys--albeit, because of their skin color, they are considered "alternative music". Remember, the Beasties arrived back when LL Cool J had a bedtime, when Run DMC was still learning how to walk this way, and Kutis Blow was still recording. They have street props, but still are recognized as a 'white alternative group'.

And, there is such a closed-minded attitude created and accepted by the rap community. My race tends to chastise me for listening to Morrissey. They call me a sellout for not listening to rap. And, in most cases, caucasians chastise me for the same reasons: "What the @#!!!?!? The Smiths are not for YOU!". Another annoying thing, is that rap creates the race issue more than solves it. I have a friend who thinks any sort of displeasureable conversation/greeting has something to do with the race issue: "That @#!!! wouldn't give me change for the phone just because I'm _____". Well, maybe he just DIDN'T HAVE CHANGE!!! The rap community almost needs these issues to exist. It's so obvious how they create them, as they have done nothing sincere to solve it. The rap community from poverty stricken neighborhoods should focus their attention on getting out of the hood, rather than trying to outdo their neighbors. Sadly, the suburbs are taking their example, and starting suburban gangs--it may sound funny, but 20 guys versus one, caucasian or not, you are gonna get your ass kicked by these guys!!! Rap seems to be it's self enforcer of racism.

As an artform, it used to fascinating. But, after 1991, I stopped even caring about it. Guys like Puff Daddy are karaoke singers, and every damn group samples "Genius of Love" from the Tom Tom Club. If one samples a popular beat, 4 months later someone else will. And, God!, everyone has sampled "The Message" from Grand Master Flash.

I onced at least respected NWA and Public Enemy. But, it seems that 1) they have nothing to say anymore, and are around these days just for your money 2) their solo stuff/PE's new album sucks, and they just can't cut it anymore. Rap is now officially a joke.

For the record, yes I am a minority. I once lived in a poverty stricken area. One can get out of the hood. And, as WCW wrestler Curt Hennig sang in song:

There's only one thing that I hate
coz it's a piece of crap
I-I-I Hate rap!!!
RAA-AAA-AAP IS CRAP!!!!

TOLD you MOZ would CANCEL!! Buh-bye Las Vegas! Maybe Alan didn't hurt his back, maybe Moz got addicted to the nickel slots! OUTTTTTTTTTTT!!!

All of God's creation is beautiful and we are all
humans who should be treted equally. There is not one race better than another. But RAP IS STILL CRAP! And holes bassist is HOT especiallly since
she likes Moz any woman who likes moz is awesome in my book.

Rock en espanol is pretty good too.

ciao julie
(just my own PERSONAL musical opinions tis all)

I never recognized that Moz-fans could be such small-minded bigots until this very moment. You should all be @#!!!ing glad to still have Moz by your side, since he still is such a great artist. And just to terrorize you racists out there: ROCK IS CRAP! Garbage, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead, Limp Bizkit, confusion, illusion, frustration, bull@#!!!. The only white bands artists still worth living for are Moz, Belle & Sebastian, Pavement, Sonic Youth and Hefner. For now Iīll just keep on listening to OlīDirty Bastard.

"Elvis was a hero to most, but he never meant @#!!! to me you see/Straight up rascist that sucker was, simple and plain/mother@#!!! him and John Wayne"

Elvis is only one of a thousand white artists to make living out of black, less fortunate artists. Still I like him because of his beautiful voice.

Throw your fist up!!!!

Yes, I must agree. Britpop is dying/dead. I mean, all the UK has left are the Manics and The Stereophonics (ugh!). But, Garbage and Radiohead at least put some imagination into their music.

It's okay to listen to rap. Ol' Dirty Bastard is funny, but I can't stand DMX or Juvenile. What is sad is that there is no imagination or craft in rap anymore. Everyone steals hooks, and everyone steals hooks already stolen from someone who stole it from they guy that first stole it.

And, I also believe rap is racist. Yes, it has a political banner. But, for example, U2 was once political. Yet, never once have I ever heard Bono blame the English for his problems.

Read the post written by Viva Hate-crimes. You don't have to agree, but please don't refuse the perception.

How about NWA - F*** the Police, not a day goes by I dont repeat that to myself. Or Big Daddy Kane, Or Slick Rick, slick rick was the sh** Ahh rap can affect you, its like blues, you get a definite mood from it. Todays rap is bad, hopfully someone will shoot Puff daddy and his scank Rican celebrity whore girlfriend. But Rap has its good sides
ehh

As for that comment about Moz fans being biggots. You do understand you are one to?? One that listens to hip- hop and Moz gives me the impression that that person has got to be a schizophrenic.

whoever stated the thing about learning other cultures. Who said that we have to??

Radiohead ahead of their time? They sound like Pink Floyd did back in -82!

So you canīt listen to hip-hop AND Moz? Why? Am I a race-traitor? Please explain it to me, Iīm so naive!

Not as quickly as you do though Boy Racer.

sounds like the making of a made manwoman
> whatever.

...eh?

issues issues issues my dear.

My thoughts exactly you ignorant racist idiot. It's sad that you are so very aware of divisions between people according to their skin color. It's also sad that, judging from your messages above, you think every black person is a part of the culture which spawned FUBU clothing and all white people may be like you and should allocate their musical loyalties into solely "white" bands. I made these inferences because you have this habit of using sweeping generalized categorizations like "whites" and "blacks"; fully utilizing the unnecessary we/they dichotomy in your thinking which is primitive to the core.

You were even brazen and benighted enough to state that "people that listen to rap are always violent, ready to fight", insinuating that rap music might be the cause of it all. You show such a lack of education and intelligence in your thinking, I laugh at, but also am infuriated by, your words as I read them.

I know how low you are and that acknowledging you should be considered a waste of my time but hopefully you can get past my insults and realize a few things about yourself. I don't know if you realize that you're a racist.

You sicken me for being so unapologetic about it. I'm sorry for this message everyone. I just wanted Boy Racer to read SOMEONE condemning his words.

This will be the last message I post on this issue which seems to have moved on. Sorry to bring it back up.

How about a little Point/CounterPoint?
Let's see: Hip-Hop kids always ready to fight? You haven't met many skinheads, have you? I'm not just talking 'bout nazi boneheads, neither (sic). Even non-racist, apolitaical skins are pretty rough and ready, not backing away from a scrap. Happily multi-cultural (punk, ska, all that @#!!! has crossed silly perceived racial boundries).

Next: I used to dispute this myself, but it is a fact that racism can only originate from the power one group has over another. The black community has no institution power over the white "community" (which is an odd thing to write, since everything else is white culture by default... but I digest). So, to claim that rap as a cultural phenomenon is rasist is fallacy. True, some hip-hop does rely on America's racial divisions for fodder, but that hardly makes it ALL racist. Here I echo Cili's remarks about the Us/Them dichotomy.

And how about Viva Hate-crimes' comments about Asian & Latino artists masking or downplaying their cultural roots: well, the fact of the matter is that most record executives are stodgy white men who only know what marketers and polls tell them. These poor, crotchty bastards will NEVER EVER go for something they know won't sell. An Asian hip-hop act? Try selling that image to MTV-addict suburban kids. And if you were asleep during the early- to mid-ninties, Cypress Hill did NOT downplay their ethnicity one bit and they were a commercial success (well, for 2 albums, anyway).

Now, this leads me into what popular, mainstream culture does to our ideas of ethnic culture. For those people who honestly believe that the stuff they see on MTV and the WB are bonafide examples of black culture or that Taco Bell is Mexican food, you can get a refund at the ticket window, thanks for playing. Whoever said TV has the effect of heroin on the brain had it right. Hip-hop culture (which I would say includes grafitti culture and DJ culture to some extent) is not the same a "black culture." Try to explain to a John Lee Hooker or Miles Davis (RIP) that theirs is hip-hop culture. Let's call a spade a spade.

No one said we have to learn about other cultures, but you can't expect to be taken seriously by making statements out of ingorance with precious little to back it up.

I'd like to add that most of the rap cited as bad lame or "crap", as most have called it, have been taken from limited scope of hip-hop that can be gleened from the cable box. Yes SOME rap is infinately forgettable and offensive even to the hardened cynic. But that's how they sell records!! Even Dr. Dre admitted he was just into this for the money! At least he honest. There's plenty out there (Gangstarr, which despite the name, send a very positive, uplifting message; MC Solaar, which I can't understand, b/c it's en Francais, but it sounds cool; Digable Planets; someone mentioned Tricky; older BDP; I could go on) that is creative, inspiting and even downright dancable (after all, that was originally the point). Even the cheesy, annoying posturings of Puff Daddy, as lame as they are, are the ultimate post-modern melange of American popular music of the past 2 or 3 decades! (Plus he sells records, so he must be doing something right, guffaw, guffaw!)

So what's the point? Even though it's been said, it deserves a retelling. The world doesn't end at one's doorstep. Personally, I enjoy music even my more enlightened friends view as trash... Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Oasis, Pet Shop Boys, older Public Enemy, Faith No More, Refused, Billy Bragg, etc, etc (even Radiohead and Blur!!!)

So by all means, we can go around thinking all people into rap are going to beat us up in a drug-addled, misogynistic, macho haze and steal our credit cards. By all means. But don't be surprised when it gets you into trouble!!!!

Peace.

I'm just saying that I have met about 5 black people so far in my short 20 yrs of living, 5 out of how many that aren't very nice. Maybe where you guys are from the black people do act different, but around here they look at you as if their going to shoot a laser beem out of thier eyes and burn you to death. When me and all my friends grew up we always we're bullied and I mean bullied by older teenage black kids. All the kids that I still know and don't care to know have all given into the old saying " if you can't beat them join them." I'm sorry they didn't scare this little white boy NO! they pissed me off. Hey if you people think I'm racist oh well sorry to get you all mad and stuff, but hey they brought it upon themselves. I didn't just wake up one day and say hey I think i'm going to hate black people for no reason. They gave me countless reasons.

Rap/ hip hop is for mostly black people. how hard is that to understand???????????????? Let me ask you this. Why don't black people even try and listen to rock music or whatever it's labelled these days?????????????????? Look I don't associate with them and I'm fine. I know they sure as hell aren't going to associate with me bcause I'm the only white person in my area that acts white. You know I happen to watch some of the stupid mtv music awards a while ago. You know what the host was Chris Rock I think he's funny yea h sure. so is he racist for saying " here's a guy who actually plays white peoples music." whick turned out to be one of my favorite drummers Lars Ulrich from Metallica. So I guess Chris Rock is a racist to now.???
hhmmmmmmmmmm.

LITTLE MAN, WHAT NOW????????????????????????????????

The saddest part is that you're only 4 years younger than I am but somewhere, somehow, your growth was arrested; too early.

You have no shame. Even within the protective shroud of anonymity, I'd be cursing myself for saying some of the things you've said.

I feel genuine pity for you; honestly and truly.

Peace Love Girl Power and Morrissey Power!

ANNA

I feel a little sorry for you, I do, because I can see that you haven't even the capacity to argue. Do you understand that? This is why you hate - because you haven't the ability not to. Can you understand this?

I know that I should actually type things like "@#!!! you", "@#!!!", or "@#!!!", because then I'd be speaking in a language you'd be able to understand but that's not how I feel.

For all I've said, I truly hope you grow up someday. I know that you too are just a product of your environment and your limitations.

This is the last time I acknowledge you.