Animal Activists, please helppp!!!!!

[The Crime Of The Century!]

Economic Left/Right: -6.88

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

 

[the more you explore me!]

Kuiper, it's all in fun. Kickstand knows that when I say England's proudest achievement is a giant ferris wheel, I might be joking.

it's a bit slow that wheel and they don't sell candy floss or cotton candy as you silly americans call it, at the bottom when you get off!
anyway our 'England's proudest achievement' is hugh grant.

 

[dazzak]

Economic Left/Right: -3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

Mildly interesting.

 

[Dave]

Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

 

[The Crime Of The Century!]

Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

My results and your results are practically identical. Does that surprise you?

 

[scottishlass]

Dave,

The definately well thought out and certainly scientific point which she was trying to make was that people who fire guns and/or eat meat have undersized genitalia..... I don't fire guns, but I do eat meat, so naturally I have quite a miniscule member, you on the other hand, don't fire guns (I'm guessing) and only occassionally eat chicken, therefore you have a nob like a coke can with an apple on top. Congratulations, mind you don't have someone's eye out.

I would have thought you have extremely full dick sacks as well.

 

[Theo]

Just to give another perspective to this argument, it is very likely that within a hundred years or more, meat-eating will die out among humans anyway. The younger generations who are children now are far more aware of what vegetarianism is.

You find it "very likely" that all humans will have stopped eating meat within 100 years? I find that as far-fetched as saying there will be no war in 100 years. But I'm not against people being vegetarian, so whatever!

But I find it more likely that this scientific avenue will be perfected:

It is the ultimate conundrum for vegetarians who think that meat is murder: a revolution in processed food that will see fresh meat grown from animal cells without a single cow, sheep or pig being killed.

***

The idea of doing away with traditional livestock and growing steaks from scratch dates back at least 70 years. In a horizon-scanning essay from 1932, Winston Churchill said: "Fifty years hence we shall escape the absurdity of growing a whole chicken in order to eat the breast or wing by growing these parts separately under a suitable medium."

Several decades too late, Churchill's vision finally looks set to become a reality.

Here's how one vegeteratian responds:

Kerry Bennett, of the Vegetarian Society, said: "This is certainly an interesting development, and one that is bound to prompt many different responses from individual vegetarians - largely depending on why those individuals have chosen vegetarianism.

"The Vegetarian Society is concerned that while this has the potential to decrease the number of meat-producing animals in factory farms, there are still a number of question marks regarding the origins of the cells and the method of harvesting.

"It won't appeal to someone who gave up meat because they think it's morally wrong to eat flesh or someone who doesn't want to eat anything unnatural," Ms Bennett added.

Yeah, some people are rather religious about it. Sort of like how Christian fundamentalists oppose stem-cell research.

Anyway, apparently it's a long way off for anything besides something like Spam or Chicken McNuggets. But 100 years from now....

That said, I notice an imbalance in this thread, of meat-eaters using a mob mentality to intimidate and bully a seventeen-year-old who happens to be enthusiastic about vegetarianism. It looks bad, folks. It's people like Kickstand who will pass on their open-mindedness to the younger generations who are born.

He's so open-minded his brain fell out. What you object to is that you and your kind can't spew your human-hating propaganda uncontested.

I don't know anyone's age, just screennames. You're trying to excuse things he said because he's only 17 and you're just happy he's letting himself be brainwashed and you don't want him second-guess his faith. Religions hate a Doubting Thomas. Here's a pat on the back to the boy who doesn't question what his cult tells him.

You'd all look a lot more honest if you just admitted the truth, which is that you couldn't be a vegetarian even if you did think it was a good choice. There's no shame in being weak, but there's a hell of a lot of shame in bullying and name-calling a seventeen-year-old because he embraces more conscientious lifestyle choices than you ever could.

I'm not, personally, too fond of red meat. My preference is fish, chicken and other poultry. I especially like chicken noodle soup for its now-proven benefits when the common cold is going around. And I absolutely love seafood. My Scandinavian ancestors have been eating fish since the beginning of time; it's as natural as could be.

I decided years ago that I'm sick of puritans trying to take pleasure out of life. It's funny that a lot of the same people who take the "hard line" as vegans are also the ones who feel ashamed of the prosperity and pleasures capitalism brings them.

If I wanna drink, smoke, eat meat, buy luxuries, I will do so for the fact that I was born free and reject those who wanna tell me what to do and force me how to live "for my own good." If I wanna go to a top restaurant and have an expertly, beautifully prepared dover sole dish - like I did this weekend - I damn well will. I felt like a king when the Italian waiter had me inspect the fish before he finished preparing it tableside like an artist. And how nice for the fish that instead of being just another fish he got to become this fabulous work-of-art of a meal.

If people wanna prove to themselves how "strong" they are by living ascetic lives, I won't intervene on their lifestyles. Morrissey was once asked about his diet and he said it's extremely "basic." That sounded as sad as his nonexistant sex life. His choice, but I ain't down. Food is a pleasure of life. You can make pleasurable, artistic meals that are vegetarian, but it's also true you're giving up a lot of the best ingredients, and there's something pathetic about all those veggie meals that have fake meat. (Is that "more natural"?)

Which is why you say we're "weak" when we don't feel compelled to sacrifice pleasures like you do. IMO, people who join cult-like groups have a weakness, but what do I know? Why is it that whenever people do things they don't have to do but enjoy nonetheless that this makes them "weak"?

Carnivorous people don't try and force anyone to stop being a vegetarian. It's you folks trying to force lifestyles on others. I won't have it. Particularly since your arguments are so filled with emotional propaganda rather than reality. If you are right, why do you have to lie?

 

[Kickstand]

Theo, I can think for myself thank you very much, I haven't been brainwashed into anything. You are saying that you don't force your views onto people, which are funny because you just didn't when you tried to patronise me. I don't eat meat, because I do not like eat, it makes me cringe, it makes me gag and heave, it's vile and that is my choice. I might be a young inexperienced person in the world, but I will not have adults talk down to me and call my ideals utopian. I read research and then forge my own opinions. I will always stand behind my opinions too; I’d rather die than change my outlook on life. I am a vegetarian because I want to be, I like it, I love and respect all creatures, and therefore it makes no sense for me to eat them. I am a keen advocate of recycling; I support the congestion charge, and love nature.

So I haven’t been brainwashed, I forged my own opinions, I am not religious, I however consider myself more of Buddhist than I do to any other faith, but what that has to do with a first class cretin like you is beyond me.

You’re the silly twat who thinks he’s Mr America. “That’s was sooo rad man!!!! Woah!!! We just bombed I-RACK back to the stone age, rad!!!!

 

[CharethCutestory]

I am not religious, I however consider myself more of Buddhist than I do to any other faith.

What is it about Buddhism that you relate to?

 

[Theo]

No, you're right. It's a well-known fact that Lions use sawn-off shotguns to shoot at Gazelle on the African plains, and they then hand them from meat-hooks, after skinning them with large butchers knives. Sharks use harpoons to aim at smaller sea creatures which they eat, and Polar Bears in the Antarctic are notorious for chasing seals around whilst brandishing chainsaws.

As has been pointed out, other primates use tools. Not only that, but if you read Richard Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale, you find - while he mentions their termite fishing and other uses of tools - that within local groups of chimpanzees they have their own customs and traditions for using tools that get handed down and differ from chimps in other areas.

And there are other animals. A sea otter will find a stone to crack shellfish out of their shells, and will save a good stone for future use. A beaver will buid a dam not just for protection but to make it easier to get food in the winter. There are birds that use tools to get insects out in the open, and there's apparently a bird that uses rocks to smash ostrich eggs.

There are even little ants, according to one site:

In what is now Ghana, colonial forestry official W B Collins witnessed the extraordinary way in which driver ants harnessed a simple tool to break through the defences of a horde of snails. Driver ants can reduce a python to bones in an hour, but these snails initially repelled the ant army by secreting a foam-like mucus into the entrances of their shells for protection.
The ants deposited crumbs of dry soil in the mucus. As the liquid was absorbed, the snails responded by secreting yet more mucus, and in turn, the ants deposited more soil around the snails. This relentless attack technique was repeated until the snails had exhausted their mucus reserves and lay defenceless.

And other creatures hunt and often hunt in rather harsh fashion. I've watched what spiders are up to in own home and it's pretty nasty when some poor bug winds up in their web - a net they've set up to catch food.

Do yourself a favour and keep your narrow-minded, wanky, neanderthal statements to yourself. You're only succeeding in making yourself look like George W Bush's dopier younger brother.

I don't know what Bush has to do with this, except he's much less a fast-food hamburger-eating pig than his predecessor. Oh yeah, rather than addressing points, you'd rather be able to say you can dismiss them without handling them if someone voted Bush over Kerry. Conventient if you're just pushing bullshit, which you are.

No, I didn't vote for the photo-op goose hunter, Kerry. But on this issue you have more in common with Bush. His religion leads him to oppose abortion and put up blocks to government-funded stem-cell research. I don't know why anyone would feel so worried about stem-cell research, or think that killing a first-trimester fetus is the same as killing an adult person, but then I don't know why anyone would think a fish feels pain and has awareness in exactly the same way as animals with more advanced brains.

 

[Theo]

Theo, I can think for myself thank you very much, I haven't been brainwashed into anything. You are saying that you don't force your views onto people, which are funny because you just didn't when you tried to patronise me. I don't eat meat, because I do not like eat, it makes me cringe, it makes me gag and heave, it's vile and that is my choice. I might be a young inexperienced person in the world, but I will not have adults talk down to me and call my ideals utopian. I read research and then forge my own opinions. I will always stand behind my opinions too; I’d rather die than change my outlook on life. I am a vegetarian because I want to be, I like it, I love and respect all creatures, and therefore it makes no sense for me to eat them. I am a keen advocate of recycling; I support the congestion charge, and love nature.

So I haven’t been brainwashed, I forged my own opinions, I am not religious, I however consider myself more of Buddhist than I do to any other faith, but what that has to do with a first class cretin like you is beyond me.

You’re the silly twat who thinks he’s Mr America. “That’s was sooo rad man!!!! Woah!!! We just bombed I-RACK back to the stone age, rad!!!!

Yeah, Iraq was a utopia of peace and happiness until Bush stole the White House from Gore and ruined it.

Anyone can go back to the beginning of this thread and see what you were trying to pass off. It wasn't rational, but gets pats on the back in certain circles I'd call similar to cults.

If you're only 17, the odds are low you'll remain a veggie for long after high school. Either way I don't care, more power to ya, live however you choose. No one cares if you're eating a salad. It's PETA types who always comment on what others eat. "Eww, you like those eggs? You're eating an aborton!" - is what one once told me at a college cafeteria.

 

[Kickstand]

What is it about Buddhism that you relate to?

Tolerance.

 

[Theo]

I'll be a vegetarian until the day I am planted into the ground.

Then good for you. You might even live longer than your fast-food eating friends as a result. (Though your comrade might wanna pass laws about living too long for the same reasons as she advocates laws against having more than one kid.)

It's just not exactly unheard-of for someone to be a political vegetarian in his teen years and outgrow it.

 

[The Crime Of The Century!]

As has been pointed out, other primates use tools. Not only that, but if you read Richard Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale, you find - while he mentions their termite fishing and other uses of tools - that within local groups of chimpanzees they have their own customs and traditions for using tools that get handed down and differ from chimps in other areas.

And there are other animals. A sea otter will find a stone to crack shellfish out of their shells, and will save a good stone for future use. A beaver will buid a dam not just for protection but to make it easier to get food in the winter. There are birds that use tools to get insects out in the open, and there's apparently a bird that uses rocks to smash ostrich eggs.

There are even little ants, according to one site:




And other creatures hunt and often hunt in rather harsh fashion. I've watched what spiders are up to in own home and it's pretty nasty when some poor bug winds up in their web - a net they've set up to catch food.




I don't know what Bush has to do with this, except he's much less a fast-food hamburger-eating pig than his predecessor. Oh yeah, rather than addressing points, you'd rather be able to say you can dismiss them without handling them if someone voted Bush over Kerry. Conventient if you're just pushing bullshit, which you are.

No, I didn't vote for the photo-op goose hunter, Kerry. But on this issue you have more in common with Bush. His religion leads him to oppose abortion and put up blocks to government-funded stem-cell research. I don't know why anyone would feel so worried about stem-cell research, or think that killing a first-trimester fetus is the same as killing an adult person, but then I don't know why anyone would think a fish feels pain and has awareness in exactly the same way as animals with more advanced brains.

And here is where my argument with you shall cease. You are way too ignorant and set in your ways to be persuaded of anything, let alone the benefits of a meat-free diet. Good luck to you. Your entire lifestyle is dependent upon death and destruction, but I'm certain what goes around comes around. Time will tell.

 

[Theo]

And here is where my argument with you shall cease. You are way too ignorant and set in your ways to be persuaded of anything, let alone the benefits of a meat-free diet. Good luck to you. Your entire lifestyle is dependent upon death and destruction, but I'm certain what goes around comes around. Time will tell.

Death and destruction. Do you think your vegetarian items get to you without any death and destruction? What about all the animals killed by farming equipment? What about the massive environmental damage done by agriculture? What about the additional harm to the environment from transporting vegetarian food to people? Etc. I'm afraid by your logic even vegetarian humans are "pests" and you should do the right thing according to your ideology and just off yourself.

 

[The Crime Of The Century!]

Death and destruction. Do you think your vegetarian items get to you without any death and destruction? What about all the animals killed by farming equipment? What about the massive environmental damage done by agriculture? What about the additional harm to the environment from transporting vegetarian food to people? Etc. I'm afraid by your logic even vegetarian humans are "pests" and you should do the right thing according to your ideology and just off yourself.

Why should I when it would be so much more fun to 'off' people like you?

 

[The Crime Of The Century!]

Death and destruction. Do you think your vegetarian items get to you without any death and destruction? What about all the animals killed by farming equipment? What about the massive environmental damage done by agriculture? What about the additional harm to the environment from transporting vegetarian food to people? Etc. I'm afraid by your logic even vegetarian humans are "pests" and you should do the right thing according to your ideology and just off yourself.

Look, I already said - I'm not arguing with you or anyone like you any longer. It's non-productive. Lets just say I disagree with practically every single thing you've said on here and leave it at that.

 

[Kickstand]

Then good for you. You might even live longer than your fast-food eating friends as a result. (Though your comrade might wanna pass laws about living too long for the same reasons as she advocates laws against having more than one kid.)

It's just not exactly unheard-of for someone to be a political vegetarian in his teen years and outgrow it.

I shan't speak for TCOTC, she can speak for herself, now if she agrees with the one child policy then that's her belief. Maybe I will outlive my friends, maybe I won't, at the end of the day I could walk out into the road and get hit by a bus (crosses his fingers). If people want to eat meat, fine, go ahead, that's your choice, but the reason I am upfront and self righteous on this issue is simply because I've been lectured constantly about how Vegetarianism is bad and all the propaganda that comes with it. I became a vegetarian because I wanted to and I have not had one thought about meat since, I haven't had the urge to eat meat again and I doubt I ever will.

It's not unheard of, but when I have a view on something I rarely change my mind, I am prone to seeing the other argument at times, when a great point has been made. I won't over my political beliefs or vegetarianism.

 

[Dave]

No, I didn't vote for the photo-op goose hunter, Kerry. But on this issue you have more in common with Bush. His religion leads him to oppose abortion and put up blocks to government-funded stem-cell research. I don't know why anyone would feel so worried about stem-cell research, or think that killing a first-trimester fetus is the same as killing an adult person, but then I don't know why anyone would think a fish feels pain and has awareness in exactly the same way as animals with more advanced brains.

True about Kerry, and I'm reminded of that photo of Dukakis in the tank. That was sort of a predecessor of the Mission Accomplished thing, which was equally as embarrassing.

Now Bush on abortion, though... It's just my opinion but I don't think his position has anything to do with his "religion". It's just party line politics. Didn't he execute retarded people when he was governor? He clearly does not value human life.

About fish pain, I know nothing.

 

[drunken goldfish]

About fish pain, I know nothing.

Don't get me started .