Jesus of Nazareth, known as "J-dogg" by some

[gashonthenail]

I'm not sure if it's wrong to classify Nietzsche as a proto-fascist. He did not trust the masses. His criticism of Christianity is often based on it being a sentimental and egalitarian religion at its core (Jesus and Paul) even though he admired the hierarchical structure thrown up by the Church. He certainly liked the Renaissance era, when the Church was ruled by wealthy Italian thugs. Ideally, for him, would've been "Cesare Borgia as pope!"

Nietzsche was ultimately a free-thinker. For me that makes him an enemy of fascism. Yes, he didn't believe in equality - he thought that was a nonsensical aspiration for the human race, which indeed it is. If we are free then automatically we become unequal. But he hated nationalism and anti-semitism. Freedom of thought is the essence of Nietzsche. He would have hated the fascist idea of education - the indoctrination of children. Nietzsche believed that the ultimate goal of education was to encourage people to think for themselves. That puts him fundamentally at odds with fascism in my view.
You are right about his love for the Renaissance era. He hated the Protestant Reformation and thought it was a backward step for the human race. A perfect example of Nietzsche's love for the controversial. But in many ways he was right in his assertion. He was certainly correct in relation to art. The Reformation brought artistic philistinism to Europe.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Nietzsche was ultimately a free-thinker. For me that makes him an enemy of fascism. Yes, he didn't believe in equality - he thought that was a nonsensical aspiration for the human race, which indeed it is. If we are free then automatically we become unequal. But he hated nationalism and anti-semitism. Freedom of thought is the essence of Nietzsche. He would have hated the fascist idea of education - the indoctrination of children. Nietzsche believed that the ultimate goal of education was to encourage people to think for themselves. That puts him fundamentally at odds with fascism in my view.

I agree with you that his commitment to free thought makes him ultimately not fascist. Just to qualify, though: Nietzsche wasn’t against nationalism per se. He was specifically against German nationalism. He didn’t think they had a right to be nationalist because in his view they hadn't earned it. He thought the Germans had become priggish—for which he certainly blamed Luther a good deal. The Germans were out of ideas and out of artists. Heinrich Heine was the last great German poet according to Nietzsche, and Heine was a Jew who (tellingly) converted to Christianity to get past the pedestrian German prejudice. Nietzsche’s concept of nobility did not exclude nationalism, but he felt it had to be deserved. Anything else was just lazy jingoism.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

The disciples said to Jesus: “Tell us how our end will be.”

Jesus said: “Have you already discovered the beginning that you are now asking about the end? For where the beginning is, there the end will be too.

Blessed is he who will stand at the beginning. And he will know the end, and he will not taste death.”

 

[nicky wire's legs]

The disciples said to Jesus: “Tell us how our end will be.”

Jesus said: “Have you already discovered the beginning that you are now asking about the end? For where the beginning is, there the end will be too.

Blessed is he who will stand at the beginning. And he will know the end, and he will not taste death.”

Jesus was so wise!!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Jesus was so wise!!

what’s your interpretation of that?

 

[nicky wire's legs]

what’s your interpretation of that?

All is one! Like the omega, which is a beginning and an end.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

All is one! Like the omega, which is a beginning and an end.

yes.

But just this morning I was in conversation with someone that’s getting on in their years and worrying about what comes after death. And I asked them to ask themselves how did it feel before they were born?

 

[goinghome]

Malarkey is one of the least charitable members on this site. You can go to the Off-topic thread and see her insisting I am a Nazi, with no evidence (obviously). On this thread she called sea salt and gashonthenail racists, also with no evidence (obviously). Imputing hateful views to others when they clearly don't hold those views is indeed "deeply offensive." Malarkey's worldview is paranoiac. She sees, in innocent people just trying to have discussions on a pop star forum, a dark conspiracy of racists, fascists, and Nazis trying to ruin Morrissey's career. That's deranged. But at least she has the excuse of being mentally ill. As for her defenders and well-wishers, I honestly don't know what. I know you consider her a stalwart defender of Morrissey, but she does more harm than good. Please try to see her from the perspective of the people she's calumniating.

Name-calling happens frequently here. Have you not yourself addressed Malarkey in the way you say she addressed you? But you go farther, to the point of personal abuse. And yet you are still here, and she's barred, for now. So that preferential decision-making is quite interesting.

No idea why you’re @-ing me to talk to me about what was an unpleasant conversation to begin with, which has been over since yesterday, and which you were never a part of.

But thank you for insulting me, because it’s really just what I needed today.

Where are the rules about the right times to enter and exit conversations? You do realise this is a discussion forum, open to all? I hope you've recovered from whatever was eating you.

I thought it was time for a change, Aubs. With regard to 'poor old Huysmans' I suppose it would depend on Huysmans in his earlier 'decadent' and 'Satanic' phase, or Huysmans in his later 'Catholic' phase.

Imitation is characteristic of both Jesus and Satan. We always imitate someone when we desire, either Jesus or Satan. In the Gospels, therefore, desire itself is mimetic. It is rooted not in the desiring subject, not in the desired object but in a third party, the model of our desire. If this model influences us through his own desire, we both desire the same object. We become rivals.

Since Jesus recommends imitation, mimetic desire is good. It is even very good, the best thing in the world, since it is the only road to the true God. But it is the same as human freedom, and it is also the road to Satan. What is the difference between the mimetic desire of Jesus and the mimetic desire of Satan? The difference is that Satan imitates God in a spirit of rivalry...

Satan casting out Satan...is the secret that the Gospels force out of hiding merely by their faithful representation of one collective murder typical of them all, typical of the process that has dominated human culture since the foundation of the world.

Girard on Satan

Excerpts from René Girard’s essay “Satan,” from The Girard Reader, pp. 194-210 The essay begins: In Mark 3:23 Jesus asks a question that he does not answer: “How can Satan cast out Satan?” In the modern period we pride ourselves on our superior knowledge and rationality, so the question of Satan...

girardianlectionary.net

The disciples said to Jesus: “Tell us how our end will be.”

Jesus said: “Have you already discovered the beginning that you are now asking about the end? For where the beginning is, there the end will be too.

Blessed is he who will stand at the beginning. And he will know the end, and he will not taste death.”

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?! I like the mystical Vedic vibe of these words. I could easily imagine Alan Watts saying what makes me feel inclined to get happily high

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Name-calling happens frequently here. Have you not yourself addressed Malarkey in the way you say she addressed you? But you go farther, to the point of personal abuse. And yet you are still here, and she's barred, for now. So that preferential decision-making is quite interesting.


Where are the rules about the right times to enter and exit conversations? You do realise this is a discussion forum, open to all? I hope you've recovered from whatever was eating you.

Imitation is characteristic of both Jesus and Satan. We always imitate someone when we desire, either Jesus or Satan. In the Gospels, therefore, desire itself is mimetic. It is rooted not in the desiring subject, not in the desired object but in a third party, the model of our desire. If this model influences us through his own desire, we both desire the same object. We become rivals.

Since Jesus recommends imitation, mimetic desire is good. It is even very good, the best thing in the world, since it is the only road to the true God. But it is the same as human freedom, and it is also the road to Satan. What is the difference between the mimetic desire of Jesus and the mimetic desire of Satan? The difference is that Satan imitates God in a spirit of rivalry...

Satan casting out Satan...is the secret that the Gospels force out of hiding merely by their faithful representation of one collective murder typical of them all, typical of the process that has dominated human culture since the foundation of the world.

Girard on Satan

Excerpts from René Girard’s essay “Satan,” from The Girard Reader, pp. 194-210 The essay begins: In Mark 3:23 Jesus asks a question that he does not answer: “How can Satan cast out Satan?” In the modern period we pride ourselves on our superior knowledge and rationality, so the question of Satan...

girardianlectionary.net

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?! I like the mystical Vedic vibe of these words. I could easily imagine Alan Watts saying what makes me feel inclined to get happily high

I've never seen Audrey personally abuse anyone. That's ridiculous.

 

[caramel sea salt]

Name-calling happens frequently here. Have you not yourself addressed Malarkey in the way you say she addressed you? But you go farther, to the point of personal abuse. And yet you are still here, and she's barred, for now. So that preferential decision-making is quite interesting.

Sam doesn't lie, slander, harass, use all kinds intimidation techniques, randomly accuse people of being racists/nazis and shitpost about M-solo on X. She's a nasty and dangerous individual. That's why she's barred and Lucifer Sam isn't. I don't understand that you can't see that.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Sam doesn't lie, slander, harass, use all kinds intimidation techniques, randomly accuse people of being racists/nazis and shitpost about M-solo on X. She's a nasty and dangerous individual. That's why she's barred and Lucifer Sam isn't. I don't understand that you can't see that.

Going home is totally out to lunch!

 

[caramel sea salt]

Arch, I miss our conversations about baklava and cappuccinos, nicky wire's legs!

I am drinking cappuccino and eating pineapple slices. I have to say - while cappuccinos are the best (especially at the wrong time of day!) and pineapples are the best - the combo isn't great. I wish I had some baklava to have with my cappuccino!

 

[caramel sea salt]

Sorry Lucifer Sam for posting about cappuccino and baklava in your Jesus thread. In my defence, there is a connection between Jesus and baklava: the Greeks use 33 layers of filo dough to honour Jesus! I bet you didn't know that.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Arch, I miss our conversations about baklava and cappuccinos, nicky wire's legs!

I am drinking cappuccino and eating pineapple slices. I have to say - while cappuccinos are the best (especially at the wrong time of day!) and pineapples are the best - the combo isn't great. I wish I had some baklava to have with my cappuccino!

That is not a winning combo, bun bun!

I'm baklava-less myself as the store I used to buy it from no longer carries it

I have discovered another heavenly thing however--biscoff cheesecake! It's amazing!! I bet that would go well with cappuccino

 

[caramel sea salt]

That is not a winning combo, bun bun!

I'm baklava-less myself as the store I used to buy it from no longer carries it

I have discovered another heavenly thing however--biscoff cheesecake! It's amazing!! I bet that would go well with cappuccino

I had to google that. It looks delightful!

I'll have to try and make that. Or perhaps some Austrian milk cream strudel. Today is a good day for baking. Baking and yoga!

 

[nicky wire's legs]

I had to google that. It looks delightful!

I'll have to try and make that. Or perhaps some Austrian milk cream strudel. Today is a good day for baking. Baking and yoga!

That sounds good! I'm off to bed myself. Hope you have a good day, bun bun!!

 

[caramel sea salt]

Sleep, baby, sleep!

 

[gashonthenail]

Interesting video about Islam and 'the West'. Will 'liberal' secularism slowly erode Islam, the way it has eroded Christianity? It's an interesting proposition. In the 21st century though, Islam, unlike Christianity, has 'protected status'. You can mock J-Dogg and everything he stands for, and many do. But try mocking M-dogg and you could face being beheaded. Still, I do think this video makes an interesting point about the 'civilisational' aspect of religion, that many in 'the West' seem to have forgotten.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Will 'liberal' secularism slowly erode Islam, the way it has eroded Christianity?

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Interesting video about Islam and 'the West'. Will 'liberal' secularism slowly erode Islam, the way it has eroded Christianity? It's an interesting proposition.

You have to almost feel pity for a religion as it erodes. Perhaps one day mosques, like English churches, will be little more than museums, hosting "silent raves" where devotees of Allah once prostrated themselves towards that mysterious cube in Mecca.

The Lamp Magazine | Disco! at the Cathedral

On a rave in Canterbury Cathedral.

thelampmagazine.com