Morrissey and the devil

Your subject matter isn't generally of the factually accurate variety, based as it commonly is on myth, symbols, hunches etc. No mistakes save for the ones you mention perhaps.

I think that a lot of us have commented in awe at your talent to match the arcane with the mundane. You could maybe do something with it as a separate project. Say if you write approximately 500 words a day here, you could do the same on your plotted-out researched (as in checking comparable authors, popular searches etc) project, and you'd have a work of nearly 100,000 words in 6 months ready for the world. That's all. We'd still be here. ;)

Well, I could do that. But it's like a drive/compulsion to connect with my mythical mate here somehow and I have these dreams. There's a pattern of "house" symbolism in the signs I see, like moving houses or cleaning houses or helping houses. One of the recurring day dreams I have (as imprtant as sleep dreams, actually) is that for some reason, this weird little mythical quest to connect with each other and "fight evil" would be helped if MOrrissey and I, IN REAL LIFE, actually purchased a real home and fixed it up. I know, images of Morrissey shopping for drywall at Home Depot=hilarious, but seriously. It's as though if we together put our minds to a mutually mundane yet rewarding activity of fixing up a real house, the cosmic house that we all live in also is helped and healed, but in a braoder almost unnoticable way. Silly Amie, I know. But my sleep dreams keep saying I'm on the right track. SO if I go away from here and focus on a book, it;s a book that's likely to be dismissed as hokum, say the word tarot and people run for the hills. But if I post my little signs here and there as I see them, I might have more of a chance of reaching my, well, love. :o
 
And I HATE WITH A PASSION writing. It comes easy to you, goinghome. I'm an illustrator at heart, words I'm not so good at. I revert to teen talk and am not so great at formulating and organizing the ideas in my brain. I could do a graphic novel I guess, but I dunno. We'll see.
 
And Claudia, I don't really have anything against you other than your happy little hobby of picking on me. Just chill out, you're superior and more sane than me. There.
I guess you've forgotten how much you picked on me on this message board over and over again when I did nothing to you. I can't believe two years ago I actually thought you were a nice, kind person. It is embarrassing how wrong I was. I know I should just keep my mouth shut and stay away from the message board (as I have been), but you are just so irritating with your holier-than-thou stance I can't take it. You keep accusing everyone else of being a stalker, but then you turn around and post these really scary Morrissey-and-I-are-soulmates rants. Please get the help you so obviously need.
 
I guess you've forgotten how much you picked on me on this message board over and over again when I did nothing to you. I can't believe two years ago I actually thought you were a nice, kind person. It is embarrassing how wrong I was. I know I should just keep my mouth shut and stay away from the message board (as I have been), but you are just so irritating with your holier-than-thou stance I can't take it. You keep accusing everyone else of being a stalker, but then you turn around and post these really scary Morrissey-and-I-are-soulmates rants. Please get the help you so obviously need.

Seconded, and hi Mell! :thumb:
 
Blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes:
 
I like you Mell. You bake awesome good cookies and were fun to gossip about all the Morrissey-solo posters with. Really, you should chill out too.
 
Some jaydubs just sent us a thoughtful hand-written letter telling us about the end of the world (it's going to happen in the night time.;)) They also sent this tract. Let's make this happen Mell. I'll be the lamb sitting next to the wolf and you can be the lion the lady in the background is petting. Claudia2006 can be the happy guy harvesting peaches with his wife. :thumb::p

4791487279_1ba5ed229c.jpg
 
She started it. :straightface: :p
 
Well, I could do that... But if I post my little signs here and there as I see them, I might have more of a chance of reaching my, well, love. :o

And I HATE WITH A PASSION writing... I could do a graphic novel I guess, but I dunno. We'll see.

You are - and I'm sure plenty of others will back me on this - a gifted writer, maybe not in the conventional sense which could be boring, but for the fluent ease with which you flit between media and knowledge planes and lightly convey your erudite discoveries.

An illusion of intimacy with someone like Morrissey has yanked many a striver up onto higher ground. Witness Mark Simpson's honest confession and nimble exploration in his book 'Saint Morrissey', the fruits of his inspiration. It could be no harm to hitch your talent to another wagon as well just in case the musty old dog kicks away from being taught new tricks and doesn't sweep in after all to carry you off to the readymade lovenest. Just in case ;)

I came across a site you might like, containing cud like this to chew:

-The first step is taken towards self-realization {individuation} when you meet your 'shadow'. This is so called because it is the 'dark' side of your psyche, the parts of yourself that you have not previously brought into the light of consciousness. It is, for this reason, the 'primitive' (undeveloped or underdeveloped) side of your personality. It is also the 'negative' side of your personality, insofar as it is the opposite of whatever you have hitherto regarded as making a positive contribution to your well being.

In dreams your shadow may be represented either by some figure of the same sex as yourself (an elder brother or sister, your best friend, or some alien or primitive person) or by a person who represents your opposite (and of the same sex). A clear example of this in literature is Robert Louis Stevenson's 'The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mt Hyde', in which Mr Hyde may be seen as Dr Jekyll's unconscious shadow, leading a separate and altogether different life from the conscious part of the personality. The werewolf motif features in the same way in literature (e.g. Hermann Hesse's 'Steppenwolf') and in folklore. In pre-literate societies this 'other' side of the individual's personality was sometimes depicted as a 'bush-soul', having its own separate body - usually that of an animal or tree in the nearby bush or forest. (It should be noted that in such preliterate society the bush or forest or other wide or desert places surrounding the human settlement were powerful symbols of anti-anomianism, that is, of everything that constituted a threat to the established law and order in the human community. There is an obvious parallel here to the way the dark forces of the unconscious may be felt as a threat to the ordered life of the conscious ego).

Cinderella is a shadow figure. She is ignored and neglected by her elder sisters. They go out into the world, but Cinderella is shut up indoors. This represents the contrast between the conscious ego (which relates to the outside world) and those parts of the unconscious that have not been allowed any part in one's conscious activity. However, Cinderella eventually escapes from her imprisonment and marries the Prince. This marriage symbolizes the joining together of conscious ego (Prince) and shadow (Cinderella), which is the end result of the penetration of the conscious mind by the unconscious and/or the penetration of the unconscious by consciousness. Symbolically - in myths and in dreams - consciousness is usually represented as male, the unconscious as female; and the sexual penetration of female by male is therfore a common symbol of the descent of consciousness into the dark cave-like depths of the unconscious. (Here is a splendid example of the difference between Freud and Jung: whereas for Freud all - nearly all - dream images were symbols of sexuality, Jung asks us to entertain the possibility that the sexual act itself may be a symbol pointing to something beyond itself.)

Other symbols of the encounter with the shadow include the conversion motif. In the New Testament the Greek word that is translated as 'conversion' means literally 'a turning about'. And this is precisely what happens in the first stage of the individuation process: you start looking in the opposite direction - inside instead of outside - and this leads to the discovery and unfolding of a new dimension of yourself; new powers begin to work for you and you begin to experience 'newness of life'. 'You shall have life and shall have it more abundantly', said Jesus; and this, Jung would say, is what individuation is all about.

Both the ritual of baptism and the many Flood myths may be sen as the first stage of the individuation process. Water is a common symbol of the unconscious. In baptism a person is plunged into water and is said to be 'born again' when he or she rises out of the water. This symbolizes the descent of consciousness into the unconscious and the resulting new and fuller life.

The same aplies to stories of a great flood which destroys the face of the earth and the recedes, leaving one pure human being (e.g Noah in the Jewish - Christian tradition; Markandeya in the Hindu tradition). If we take this as a symbol of individuation, what is destroyed by the flood-waters (the unconscious) is the persona, that makeshift self-image with which we start our adult life. This partial self must be desolved to make way for the appearance of the whole self {represented by Noah or Markandeya}.

In some cultures there are myths of a diver who plunges to the bottom of the sea and brings up treasure. The water, again, may be seen as a symbol for the unconscious, and the treasure as the new self one finds when priviously usued psychic resources are given approperiate expression in one's conscious life.

The story of the Frog Prince tells of a young woman who is visited on three consecutive nights by a frog. On the first and second nights she is horrified, but on the third night she relents and lets the frog into her bed, and in the moment that she kisses him the frog turns into a handsome prince. For Ernest Jones (a follower and biographer of Freud) the story is an allegorical account of a young woman overcoming her fear of sex. For Joseph Campbell (a disciple of Jung) the frog is just another example of the dragons and other frightening monsters whose role in mythology is to guard treasure. The frog, like them, represents the dark and frightening shadow; the treasure is the true self. The kiss symbolizes a person's acceptanace of the shadow. And the result is the manisfestation of the true nature of the shadow, as a bearer of one's true selfhood.

In order to reach the second stage of individuation you must resist two temptations. First, you must avoid projecting your shadow on to other people. Your shadow, because it is your dark side, may be quite frightening, and you may even see it as something evil. You may therfore want to disown it; and one way of doing this is to make believe it is the property of someone else. On a collective level this is what leads to racism and the persecution of 'non-believers' (which in this context means people whose beliefs are different from our own). These are both examples of the 'them-and-us' syndrome, where we unload our 'dark' side on to some other group, which then becomes the scapegoat that carries the blame for everything that is wrong in our lives or our society. Commenting on Jesus's command to 'Love your enemy', Jung remarks: 'But what if I should discover that that very enemy himself is within me, that I myself am the enemy who must be loved - what then?' The answer is that you must learn to integrate the dark side of yourself, which means accepting it and allowing it to proper expression under the control of your conscious mind. It will then cease to be dark and terrifying and hostile; instead, it will enhance the quality of your life, advance your personal development and increase your happiness.

The second temptation to be resisted is that of suppressing the shadow, which means putting it back into the cellars of the unconscious and locking thye doors on it. (If Cinderella never realized her shadow, she would still be locked behind the closed doors which represents her unconscious desires to be free). Says Jung: 'Mere suppression of the Shadow is as little a remedy as beheading would be for a headache.' Whatever pain or unease your shadow may cause you, it consists of precisely those parts of your total self that you need to utilize if you are to achieve full personal growth. To suppress the shadow is merely to go back to square one; and sooner or later you will be forced to come to terms with this 'dark' side of yourself.

Usually, the first encounter with the shadow leads only to a partial acceptance of it, a mere acknowledgement of its existence. Certainly it is good to confess (what appear as) the less desirable - the'dark' - aspects of one's personality: without that, no further progress can be made. But merely acknowledging these aspects does not take us very far. A lot more work is necessary...-
http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/shadow.html
 
Are you trying to dash my dreams, goinghome?
 
You are - and I'm sure plenty of others will back me on this - a gifted writer, maybe not in the conventional sense which could be boring, but for the fluent ease with which you flit between media and knowledge planes and lightly convey your erudite discoveries.

An illusion of intimacy with someone like Morrissey has yanked many a striver up onto higher ground. Witness Mark Simpson's honest confession and nimble exploration in his book 'Saint Morrissey', the fruits of his inspiration. It could be no harm to hitch your talent to another wagon as well just in case the musty old dog kicks away from being taught new tricks and doesn't sweep in after all to carry you off to the readymade lovenest. Just in case ;)

I came across a site you might like, containing cud like this to chew:

-The first step is taken towards self-realization {individuation} when you meet your 'shadow'. This is so called because it is the 'dark' side of your psyche, the parts of yourself that you have not previously brought into the light of consciousness. It is, for this reason, the 'primitive' (undeveloped or underdeveloped) side of your personality. It is also the 'negative' side of your personality, insofar as it is the opposite of whatever you have hitherto regarded as making a positive contribution to your well being.

In dreams your shadow may be represented either by some figure of the same sex as yourself (an elder brother or sister, your best friend, or some alien or primitive person) or by a person who represents your opposite (and of the same sex). A clear example of this in literature is Robert Louis Stevenson's 'The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mt Hyde', in which Mr Hyde may be seen as Dr Jekyll's unconscious shadow, leading a separate and altogether different life from the conscious part of the personality. The werewolf motif features in the same way in literature (e.g. Hermann Hesse's 'Steppenwolf') and in folklore. In pre-literate societies this 'other' side of the individual's personality was sometimes depicted as a 'bush-soul', having its own separate body - usually that of an animal or tree in the nearby bush or forest. (It should be noted that in such preliterate society the bush or forest or other wide or desert places surrounding the human settlement were powerful symbols of anti-anomianism, that is, of everything that constituted a threat to the established law and order in the human community. There is an obvious parallel here to the way the dark forces of the unconscious may be felt as a threat to the ordered life of the conscious ego).

Cinderella is a shadow figure. She is ignored and neglected by her elder sisters. They go out into the world, but Cinderella is shut up indoors. This represents the contrast between the conscious ego (which relates to the outside world) and those parts of the unconscious that have not been allowed any part in one's conscious activity. However, Cinderella eventually escapes from her imprisonment and marries the Prince. This marriage symbolizes the joining together of conscious ego (Prince) and shadow (Cinderella), which is the end result of the penetration of the conscious mind by the unconscious and/or the penetration of the unconscious by consciousness. Symbolically - in myths and in dreams - consciousness is usually represented as male, the unconscious as female; and the sexual penetration of female by male is therfore a common symbol of the descent of consciousness into the dark cave-like depths of the unconscious. (Here is a splendid example of the difference between Freud and Jung: whereas for Freud all - nearly all - dream images were symbols of sexuality, Jung asks us to entertain the possibility that the sexual act itself may be a symbol pointing to something beyond itself.)

Other symbols of the encounter with the shadow include the conversion motif. In the New Testament the Greek word that is translated as 'conversion' means literally 'a turning about'. And this is precisely what happens in the first stage of the individuation process: you start looking in the opposite direction - inside instead of outside - and this leads to the discovery and unfolding of a new dimension of yourself; new powers begin to work for you and you begin to experience 'newness of life'. 'You shall have life and shall have it more abundantly', said Jesus; and this, Jung would say, is what individuation is all about.

Both the ritual of baptism and the many Flood myths may be sen as the first stage of the individuation process. Water is a common symbol of the unconscious. In baptism a person is plunged into water and is said to be 'born again' when he or she rises out of the water. This symbolizes the descent of consciousness into the unconscious and the resulting new and fuller life.

The same aplies to stories of a great flood which destroys the face of the earth and the recedes, leaving one pure human being (e.g Noah in the Jewish - Christian tradition; Markandeya in the Hindu tradition). If we take this as a symbol of individuation, what is destroyed by the flood-waters (the unconscious) is the persona, that makeshift self-image with which we start our adult life. This partial self must be desolved to make way for the appearance of the whole self {represented by Noah or Markandeya}.

In some cultures there are myths of a diver who plunges to the bottom of the sea and brings up treasure. The water, again, may be seen as a symbol for the unconscious, and the treasure as the new self one finds when priviously usued psychic resources are given approperiate expression in one's conscious life.

The story of the Frog Prince tells of a young woman who is visited on three consecutive nights by a frog. On the first and second nights she is horrified, but on the third night she relents and lets the frog into her bed, and in the moment that she kisses him the frog turns into a handsome prince. For Ernest Jones (a follower and biographer of Freud) the story is an allegorical account of a young woman overcoming her fear of sex. For Joseph Campbell (a disciple of Jung) the frog is just another example of the dragons and other frightening monsters whose role in mythology is to guard treasure. The frog, like them, represents the dark and frightening shadow; the treasure is the true self. The kiss symbolizes a person's acceptanace of the shadow. And the result is the manisfestation of the true nature of the shadow, as a bearer of one's true selfhood.

In order to reach the second stage of individuation you must resist two temptations. First, you must avoid projecting your shadow on to other people. Your shadow, because it is your dark side, may be quite frightening, and you may even see it as something evil. You may therfore want to disown it; and one way of doing this is to make believe it is the property of someone else. On a collective level this is what leads to racism and the persecution of 'non-believers' (which in this context means people whose beliefs are different from our own). These are both examples of the 'them-and-us' syndrome, where we unload our 'dark' side on to some other group, which then becomes the scapegoat that carries the blame for everything that is wrong in our lives or our society. Commenting on Jesus's command to 'Love your enemy', Jung remarks: 'But what if I should discover that that very enemy himself is within me, that I myself am the enemy who must be loved - what then?' The answer is that you must learn to integrate the dark side of yourself, which means accepting it and allowing it to proper expression under the control of your conscious mind. It will then cease to be dark and terrifying and hostile; instead, it will enhance the quality of your life, advance your personal development and increase your happiness.

The second temptation to be resisted is that of suppressing the shadow, which means putting it back into the cellars of the unconscious and locking thye doors on it. (If Cinderella never realized her shadow, she would still be locked behind the closed doors which represents her unconscious desires to be free). Says Jung: 'Mere suppression of the Shadow is as little a remedy as beheading would be for a headache.' Whatever pain or unease your shadow may cause you, it consists of precisely those parts of your total self that you need to utilize if you are to achieve full personal growth. To suppress the shadow is merely to go back to square one; and sooner or later you will be forced to come to terms with this 'dark' side of yourself.

Usually, the first encounter with the shadow leads only to a partial acceptance of it, a mere acknowledgement of its existence. Certainly it is good to confess (what appear as) the less desirable - the'dark' - aspects of one's personality: without that, no further progress can be made. But merely acknowledging these aspects does not take us very far. A lot more work is necessary...-
http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/shadow.html

You just saved my life.
 
You just saved my life.

I wish I could say the same. I've been thinking about this while shopping at the store, running errands, etc, etc... and it's really kinda different in my case. I mean it's still incredibly informative and valuable information, for sure. But it presupposes that the shadow is mythical character aiding in the development of one's self. In my case I've cracked a code, learned a system and have discovered an unbelievable parallel to another human, not a simple archetype. But thank you so much for this valuable and intelligent information, goinghome. And the lovenest isn't readymade, it needs to be made. :thumb: Picture it: Home Depot Palare. Morrissey trolling for caulk and a box of nails. :sweet:
 
Are you trying to dash my dreams, goinghome?

Sorry, I didn't mean to: quite the opposite in fact :o

I wish I could say the same. I've been thinking about this while shopping at the store, running errands, etc, etc... and it's really kinda different in my case. I mean it's still incredibly informative and valuable information, for sure. But it presupposes that the shadow is mythical character aiding in the development of one's self. In my case I've cracked a code, learned a system and have discovered an unbelievable parallel to another human, not a simple archetype. But thank you so much for this valuable and intelligent information, goinghome. And the lovenest isn't readymade, it needs to be made. :thumb: Picture it: Home Depot Palare. Morrissey trolling for caulk and a box of nails. :sweet:

I think one or two posters have already said it, but the shadow theory also seems to account for a lot of what people mean when they speak of the devil. Ah, to hell with it! :D
 
Ah, to hell with it! :D

shades.jpg


Interesting that you say that. I'm under the impression that Bona Drag trully represents Morrissey's hades years. It's particularly interesting that he's re-issuing his "I'm living in hell while my cosmic cohort gets swallowed whole and I can see it all" work, as though to say he's conquered it. The addition of the other tracks redefines the sentiment of the album, it's the glimmer of hope on the horizon that he only ever saw a glimmer of, but now sees blindingly. I hope. :o
 
I noticed on the LA Times Photos section that Hindus and others are honoring Kali this week, giving sacrifice of rice and water to her. Kali's another way of looking at the androgyne. Notice she has four arms, that's because she's two people. She's herself and the spirit of her husband, Shiva, who she stands over. While she's standing over him, she's doing her "destruction" which is just nature, no big deal. But she hears the prayers of the people who honor her and when she "works" she does her best to keep them as safe as she keeps Shiva, whom she loves. It's all pretty cool. And before anyone gets freaked out by her stylish belt and necklace, it's just the heads of Raktabija's zombies. :rolleyes: He's the "enemy" she defeats on the battlefield, a concept Silke went over on the first page.

275px-Kaliposter1940s.jpg


Denim makes a Shiva. :p
 
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I noticed on the LA Times Photos section that Hindus and others are honoring Kali this week, giving sacrifice of rice and water to her... :p

I've been partial to Kali for years. Just this past week I ordered a book about her! :)
 
I've been partial to Kali for years. Just this past week I ordered a book about her! :)

Kali's fantastic. I used to be leary of her essence but the more I learned the more I realized she is life, not death. And her Shiva? :sweet: That's why the crowd goes "Boooooo," it's Kali's ghost recognizing her husband.

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They call attention to themselves beause one is different, it's flipped upside down. The shape on them is reminiscent to the lingam and yoni shape the devil holds, or the male and female sex parts. This is the same as the alchemist's mercury. It;s also interesting that 52 is spray painted on the wall or pedastol the chains connect to. It's the number of cards in a standard playing deck and the number of weeks in a year which complete one full solar cycle. Anyway, here's Moz being all devil, but in the sweetest way. I was reading (skimming really, my brain's too tired to read anything these days) Meditations on the Tarot (Powell) about the devil since we were talking about serpents and whatnot and he had this to say about the creation of artificial demons.

:rofl: I always thought that he's only an incubus and nothing else ahhhhahhah :lbf:
 
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