New Morrissey statement, and comment from Love Music Hate Racism

[DianaDors]

Also, some fresh comment from the Love Music Hate Racism fella, which will hurt Moz as he bailed out one of their pop concerts, financially, a couple of years back.

A spokesman for Love Music Hate Racism, which received a donation of £28,000 from the singer in 2008 after his apparently anti-immigration comments made in music magazine NME convulsed the media, said it would be unable to accept support from Morrissey again if he did not rescind or dispute today's comments. "It really is just crude racism," said Martin Smith. "When you start using language like 'subspecies', you are entering into dark and murky water. I don't think we would, or could, ask him to come back after that."

LMHR were probably just bounced into this statement in typical tabloid fashion - called up by a breathless Guardian journalist saying, "Morrissey has just called the Chinese a subspecies, how can you possibly alllow your organisation to be associated with him???" etc etc (yawn, yawn)

 

[DianaDors]

I see. So in a year's time you'll look back on his "subspecies" quote and it will no longer be racist?

Never was, never will be.

 

[Worm]

Never was, never will be.

But smiler told me that Morrissey's categorical rejection of racism was no longer valid because too much time had passed. It seems to have expired, like bad milk. I can only assume this latest comment has an expiration date, too, right? Or do I not understand life? I admit the last is a distinct possibility.

 

[smiler]

Er no... simply by referring the Chinese does NOT suggest they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race. Don't you know what "intrinsic" means?

What????? Yes he does suggest that??? He said "the Chinese are a subspecies" please explain to me how that does not relate to all Chinese people and why the cruelty in the video forces you to conclude that the Chinese as a race are less evoved than the rest of us? - he did not say it hard to not feel the people involved are a subspecies instead he said The Chinese
!!

 

[bitterpill777]

poetically "swimming in murky waters" is one thing - a racist remarks is another

and "Morrissey is the context." - means nothing



because the remark was racist

f***ing hell smiler you are such a pedantic bore. I can just hear you repeating: "the remark was racist, the remark was racist..." with your adams apple high in your throat, your little clipboard and newly sharpened pencil.
Haven't you ever uttered a remark which could be construed as racist or sexist (or intelligent)? I have, quite often in fact. It doesn't make me any of these things. What matters is the context it was said in. And in this case weather it was meant to, or possibly could insight racial hatred. And, in this case it clearly was not. So stop crying and just tell your Morrissey hating mates to f*** off. Why do you care how they think about what they are incapable of understanding anyway? So f***ing what if someone, somewhere in Sidcup gets offended while knitting a tea cosy. Let them feel it. We need to every once in a while in order to know who we are. These lynch mob, bandwagons are for desperate people, disconnected with the world, who feel a need and longing for something to identify with. They (you) just want to join in. The people complaining about Morrissey's comments are not hurt themselves, they are acting on behalf of other people who they imagine may be hurt by them. It's very patronising. This so called 'row' is a Guardian construct created for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, like most of the media, they have dumbed down in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Just imagine what would happen to the world if we were all forced to do the opposite. So the dumbest of us wouldn't be constantly force fed this shit. We would instead be forced to scratch our heads a little and think a bit. How would a world like this be I wonder?

 

[dicartwright]

His comment made the front page of Uruguay's -most prestigious- newspaper
How crazy

 

[smiler]

Ok... so people have to keep reiterating their position all the way through life, do they? Just in case there have been some subtle shifts in nuance or opinion? "Get Out Of Jail Free card", my arse. Basically you're saying "even though someone says one thing, we should believe that s/he means something else and just uses the former statement to conceal their intentions"...? Seriously, can't you comprehend that this is arrant nonsense??

Come Come you must know this is a stupid thing to say - and you to worm:

The quote "I abhor racism" doesn't expire over time or require renewal but you must admit that if i were to say "i am not racist" and then later i say "i hate black people" then the second quote over-shadows the first - its that simple. to claim the second quote "i hate black people" isn't racist simply because i had once said "i am not racist" is just nonsense.

 

[Claudia2006]

What????? Yes he does suggest that??? He said "the Chinese are a subspecies" please explain to me how that does not relate to all Chinese people and why the cruelty in the video forces you to conclude that the Chinese as a race are less evoved than the rest of us? - he did not say it hard to not feel the people involved are a subspecies instead he said The Chinese
!!

Well for one thing the Chinese does not refer to a race, but rather a nationality.

Also, what bitterpill777 said.

 

[smiler]

f***ing hell smiler you are such a pedantic bore. I can just hear you repeating: "the remark was racist, the remark was racist..." with your adams apple high in your throat, your little clipboard and newly sharpened pencil.
Haven't you ever uttered a remark which could be construed as racist or sexist (or intelligent)? I have, quite often in fact. It doesn't make me any of these things. What matters is the context it was said in. And in this case weather it was meant to, or possibly could insight racial hatred. And, in this case it clearly was not. So stop crying and just tell your Morrissey hating mates to f*** off. Why do you care how they think about what they are incapable of understanding anyway? So f***ing what if someone, somewhere in Sidcup gets offended while knitting a tea cosy. Let them feel it. We need to every once in a while in order to know who we are. These lynch mob, bandwagons are for desperate people, disconnected with the world, who feel a need and longing for something to identify with. They (you) just want to join in. The people complaining about Morrissey's comments are not hurt themselves, they are acting on behalf of other people who they imagine may be hurt by them. It's very patronising. This so called 'row' is a Guardian construct created for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, like most of the media, they have dumbed down in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Just imagine what would happen to the world if we were all forced to do the opposite. So the dumbest of us wouldn't be constantly force fed this shit. We would instead be forced to scratch our heads a little and think a bit. How would a world like this be I wonder?

haven't you said all this before (yawn).......and i don't own a clipboard - you keep going on about "the context" without explaining how the context justifies the quote - it doesn't
I do not Knit or live in Sidcup
I am not part of a lynch mob, or aboard a bandwagon
I am not crying or joining in on something
I am not calling for anything like a boycott or even an apology
I am not hurt or acting on behalf of other people
I am not easily offended
I lol'ed long and hard over russell brands phone call drama for instance
I love Morrissey very much
It is with much regret that i concluded that the remark is racist
I do feel a little let down (as i mentioned before)

 

[Worm]

The quote "I abhor racism" doesn't expire over time or require renewal but you must admit that if i were to say "i am not racist" and then later i say "i hate black people" then the second quote over-shadows the first - its that simple.

But Morrissey did not say anything nearly as inflammatory as "I hate Chinese people". Morrissey condemned a nation for its treatment of animals using a word, "subspecies", that made it seem as if he could be racist. He has a record of condemning China solely on the grounds of its treatment of animals. After all, as we saw in his clarification, Morrissey did not attempt to justify his use of the word "subspecies" but instead focused on the atrocious record of animal cruelty in China. Ask yourself: if China reversed course and became the most animal-friendly, animal-loving nation in the world, don't you think Morrissey would praise Chinese people to the skies every chance he got?

Meanwhile, in a written statement he had time to consider carefully, accompanied by a check for GBP 28,000, Morrissey made it clear-- in terms that were not in any way ambiguous, and which were accepted by the leader of one of the U.K.'s leading anti-racist organizations-- that he was not racist. Do you think Martin Smith, the head of Love Music Hate Racism, who I understand is on trial for assaulting a police officer, is an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing?

But ultimately it comes back to the same point: you can argue 'til you're blue in the face, but when faced with two contradictory statements, A and B, issuing from the same source in a similar forum, you can't arbitrarily choose to believe A and dismiss B. You have to consider other evidence to figure out which one is true. And, as you so vividly put it, there is a "mountain of evidence" supporting the case that Morrissey is not a racist.

 

[smiler]

Well for one thing the Chinese does not refer to a race, but rather a nationality.

good point but it doesn't detract from my point just subsitute the word race for nationality

 

[smiler]

But Morrissey did not say anything nearly as inflammatory as "I hate Chinese people". Morrissey condemned a nation for its treatment of animals using a word, "subspecies", that made it seem as if he could be racist. He has a record of condemning China solely on the grounds of its treatment of animals. After all, as we saw in his clarification, Morrissey did not attempt to justify his use of the word "subspecies" but instead focused on the atrocious record of animal cruelty in China. Ask yourself: if China reversed course and became the most animal-friendly, animal-loving nation in the world, don't you think Morrissey would praise Chinese people to the skies every chance he got?

Meanwhile, in a written statement he had time to consider carefully, accompanied by a check for GBP 28,000, Morrissey made it clear-- in terms that were not in any way ambiguous, and which were accepted by the leader of one of the U.K.'s leading anti-racist organizations-- that he was not racist. Do you think Martin Smith, the head of Love Music Hate Racism, who I understand is on trial for assaulting a police officer, is an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing?

But ultimately it comes back to the same point: you can argue 'til you're blue in the face, but when faced with two contradictory statements, A and B, issuing from the same source in a similar forum, you can't arbitrarily choose to believe A and dismiss B. You have to consider other evidence to figure out which one is true. And, as you so vividly put it, there is a "mountain of evidence" supporting the case that Morrissey is not a racist.

We are going round in circles and i think we agree more than you are prepared to admit

"But Morrissey did not say anything nearly as inflammatory as "I hate Chinese people"." - really? - okay but i said that just to illistrate my point he did effectively suggest that they are less evolved - the point is one quote can over shadow another - do you see?

I never had any time for LMHR anyway but clearly they "won't have him back now" for a reason? - even they can't rely on the old quote or even the donation in the light of this new quote

"Morrissey condemned a nation for its treatment of animals using a word, "subspecies", that made it seem as if he could be racist." - Again we agree and the point is i didn't feel that way before this (sigh) - and that word, in that context is racist thats the point - perhaps he didn't mean it? - again we agree but then why say it at all?

 

[bitterpill777]

haven't you said all this before (yawn).......and i don't own a clipboard - you keep going on about "the context" without explaining how the context justifies the quote - it doesn't
I do not Knit or live in Sidcup
I am not part of a lynch mob, or aboard a bandwagon
I am not crying or joining in on something
I am not calling for anything like a boycott or even an apology
I am not hurt or acting on behalf of other people
I am not easily offended
I lol'ed long and hard over russell brands phone call drama for instance
I love Morrissey very much
It is with much regret that i concluded that the remark is racist
I do feel a little let down (as i mentioned before)

"The remark is racist, the remark is racist..." how do you keep that adams apple of yours so high for so long? Why do you feel so let down? Because you might have to defend your hero's words again? Don't feel so ashamed. let go. Tell your stupid friends that the remark was racist. So f***ing what? It hasn't hurt anyone (except you) and it doesn't mean or prove you, or Morrissey are racist. There's no need for your loyalty to be vexed. Calm down, move on, smoke and explode, get f***ed.

 

[smiler]

"The remark is racist, the remark is racist..." how do you keep that adams apple of yours so high for so long? Why do you feel so let down? Because you might have to defend your hero's words again? Don't feel so ashamed. let go. Tell your stupid friends that the remark was racist. So f***ing what? It hasn't hurt anyone (except you) and it doesn't mean or prove you, or Morrissey are racist. There's no need for your loyalty to be vexed. Calm down, move on, smoke and explode, get f***ed.

it is clearly you that needs to calm down - please stop telling me how to think or what to do

 

[bitterpill777]

it is clearly you that needs to calm down - please stop telling me how to think or what to do

:nopity:

 

[Worm]

We are going round in circles and i think we agree more than you are prepared to admit

Yeah, we are going in circles, but not because we agree.

do you see?

Not really, no. You're choosing to believe one quote and not the other. The man categorically, emphatically condemned racism using clear language. The "subspecies" quote is, I agree, offensive, but it is not as ironclad as his condemnation of racism. It is easy to doubt that Morrissey literally meant Chinese people were genetically inferior. The two quotes don't overlap at all.

You're applying a double standard.

"Morrissey condemned a nation for its treatment of animals using a word, "subspecies", that made it seem as if he could be racist." - Again we agree and the point is i didn't feel that way before this (sigh) - and that word, in that context is racist thats the point - perhaps he didn't mean it? - again we agree but then why say it at all?

You're clinging to a single utterance by Morrissey as if he had never said or done anything before September 6, 2010. I don't understand. You keep coming back to one line and you refuse to contextualize it, despite having "a mountain of evidence" to the contrary. The only way you can make your case is by considering only one line and refusing to consider anything else-- and this, with a pop star you used to like. Bewildering.

 

[Anaesthesine]

I'm glad that I only have limited internet access this week.

His comment made the front page of Uruguay's -most prestigious- newspaper
How crazy

Morrissey is either an epic pr genius or the least savvy "celebrity" on the planet. Probably both.

 

[smiler]

Yeah, we are going in circles, but not because we agree.



Not really, no. You're choosing to believe one quote and not the other. The man categorically, emphatically condemned racism using clear language. The "subspecies" quote is, I agree, offensive, but it is not as ironclad as his condemnation of racism. It is easy to doubt that Morrissey literally meant Chinese people were genetically inferior. The two quotes don't overlap at all.

You're applying a double standard.



You're clinging to a single utterance by Morrissey as if he had never said or done anything before September 6, 2010. I don't understand. You keep coming back to one line and you refuse to contextualize it, despite having "a mountain of evidence" to the contrary. The only way you can make your case is by considering only one line and refusing to consider anything else-- and this, with a pop star you used to like. Bewildering.

I'll say it again - before this particular quote i could defend everything he'd previously said/sang

My case is not to say Morrissey is racist - but that the remark was racist - and hearing him say racist things (for the first time) makes my heart sink - and i do still like him...

 

[Kewpie]

I'll say it again - before this particular quote i could defend everything he'd previously said/sang

My case is not to say Morrissey is racist - but that the remark was racist - and hearing him say racist things (for the first time) makes my heart sink - and i do still like him...

Morrissey criticised some Chinese people's inhumane treatment of animals.
Yes, it's hard to support his choice of the word, but it's not a racist remark.

Problem is your perception.

 

[Worm]

Morrissey is either an epic pr genius or the least savvy "celebrity" on the planet. Probably both.

For an artist like Morrissey the entire media is one big tripwire tied to a megaton bomb. All he has to do is put one foot in front of the other and walk.