A
Anonymous person
Guest
I was watching the movie Hobson's Choice (one of Morrissey's favorites) the other day and noticed that one of the characters said "once I saw the river clean." Is this the source of the Morrissey title?
Gregor Samsa
I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Nicely spotted! I love stuff like this. One more piece to the puzzle…
Almost:
"... It's a pity
you' re a natural fool at all else.
I'm not much use at owt but leather, and that's a fact.
I saw the river clean once.
Sunday school outing, up on t'moors. Will?
We'll have the first banns call next Sunday.
Nay...."
Directly from the film script.
FWD.
"... It's a pity
you' re a natural fool at all else.
I'm not much use at owt but leather, and that's a fact.
I saw the river clean once.
Sunday school outing, up on t'moors. Will?
We'll have the first banns call next Sunday.
Nay...."
Directly from the film script.
FWD.
P
PPP1922
Guest
Upon first reading the song's title, I was reminded of Pasolini's essay on the disappearance of the fireflies (1975), especially the passage:
At the beginning of the sixties, the fireflies began to disappear in our nation, due to pollution of the air, and the azure rivers and limpid canals, above all in the countryside. This was a stunning and searing phenomena. There were no fireflies left after a few years. Today this is a somewhat poignant recollection of the past—a man of that time with such a souvenir cannot be young among the young of today and can therefore not have the wonderful regrets of those times.
After I first listened to the song (which has been a while ago), this connection seemed much less intuitive to me. However, since Moz had referenced Pasolini a lot during the glorious ROTT era, I'm gonna leave this here: https://www.diagonalthoughts.com/?p=2107
At the beginning of the sixties, the fireflies began to disappear in our nation, due to pollution of the air, and the azure rivers and limpid canals, above all in the countryside. This was a stunning and searing phenomena. There were no fireflies left after a few years. Today this is a somewhat poignant recollection of the past—a man of that time with such a souvenir cannot be young among the young of today and can therefore not have the wonderful regrets of those times.
After I first listened to the song (which has been a while ago), this connection seemed much less intuitive to me. However, since Moz had referenced Pasolini a lot during the glorious ROTT era, I'm gonna leave this here: https://www.diagonalthoughts.com/?p=2107
Re-listening to I am not a dog on a chain a couple of times recently I enjoyed this song a lot, really like my hurling days are done and knockabout world too, rarely listen to world peace or low in high school in full though they have not proven to be favourites for me. Think I enjoy California son most overall even if a lot of people don't like covers, maybe it helped that I was only familiar with two of the originals.
A
Anonymous Personage
Guest
By the way, for those who haven't seen it, Hobson's Choice is really a wonderful movie, both humorous and poignant. It is currently available on HBO Max.
gashonthenail
You will own nothing and you will be happy...
Well spotted / listened. The line is only used in the film, during a location shot, and is not in the original play. The film succeeds in not feeling at all like a play. It feels like a piece of cinema. The use of Manchester dialect in the play and movie is very striking and no doubt one of the reasons why Moz is a fan.
One of the main themes of the play - and Moz's lyrics in the song - is the inevitability of change, and generational change and decay. In many ways Hobson's Choice is King Lear, set in Manchester.
I walked with my grandmother
Cornbrook Street, where incomplete
She would never be again
A Dublin dancer, free and young
markem41
Member
A nice indirect link, the Corn Brook was a stream that ran through the Hulme / Old Trafford area, became polluted and is now culverted underground and is basically a sewer.
C
Charlie Bubbles
Guest
Cornbrook is now a bustling metro interchange station. I get off there and walk a windswept Chester Road to my place of work. Old Trafford - much like Manchester - is always transmogrifying into something different. Old terrace houses replaced by high rises, that get replaced by new-builds, that get torn down and replaced by new apartment blocks.
markem41
Member
Yes, know the area well, I'm based at the Town Hall if not working from home. You're being generous to Cornbrook Metro station by not mentioning it's a bit desolate and windswept! Could do with an interchange onto the main rail line as well. If the development plans were carried out as intended, the stretch of Chester Road from the Toll Gate all the way up to Castlefield would be a city gateway lined with apartments, shops and cafes. Not quite there yet.
gashonthenail
You will own nothing and you will be happy...
I think the river referred to in the movie is the Irwell. It's certainly where the outdoor location shoot took place for the movie.
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Until the early 19th century the Irwell was well-stocked with fish and other wildlife, with people living near Manchester Cathedral using its water for drinking and other domestic purposes. But during the Industrial Revolution, increasing levels of pollution caused by waste products discharged into the river by local industries proved fatal to wildlife, with fish stocks disappearing completely by about 1850.
en.wikipedia.org
The original play is set in 1880, so remembering seeing the river before it was destroyed by pollution makes sense.
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Until the early 19th century the Irwell was well-stocked with fish and other wildlife, with people living near Manchester Cathedral using its water for drinking and other domestic purposes. But during the Industrial Revolution, increasing levels of pollution caused by waste products discharged into the river by local industries proved fatal to wildlife, with fish stocks disappearing completely by about 1850.
River Irwell - Wikipedia
The original play is set in 1880, so remembering seeing the river before it was destroyed by pollution makes sense.
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
scratching up the latest scheme
What does this phrase mean?
Pasolini the Seer. They did not see that the power that they continued to exercise was already maneuvering to establish the basis for new transnational armies, almost like a technocratic police force.
Can the river ever be cleaned again?
What does this phrase mean?
Pasolini the Seer. They did not see that the power that they continued to exercise was already maneuvering to establish the basis for new transnational armies, almost like a technocratic police force.
Can the river ever be cleaned again?
nicky wire's legs
She/we
That sounds idyllic!! Can I stay with them toooooooo?!
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