"Viva Hate" reviewed in Pitchfork (7.3 / 10)

Re: Viva Hate reviewed in Pitchfork

Thanks for posting this

This strange mix of pomp and minimal languor makes Viva Hate the only Morrissey LP you'd consider listening to just for its music.

Not exactly-- I'd play "Your Arsenal" as an instrumental album and love it-- but the reviewer does hit on an uncomfortable truth about Morrissey's solo career.

 

[celibate]

What an odd review -"After 20 years of stalled comebacks and scorned collaborators it seems odd to think of Morrissey as a mainstream contender"? "The future promised on and by Viva Hate failed to happen"? I guess the nineties never happened, and Moz didn't stage a glorious comeback in the early aughts. Nor did he have long, successful relationships with Alain, Boz or Jesse.

I usually like Ewing, but he's trying too hard to revise history to fit his notions.

the 3 were longer in Morrissey's band than The Smiths in [part =andy/gannon] whole

indeed Betrand a jounalist should check the facts before starting to write ,..

so do I

 

[Anonymous]

if he wants to re-edit his classic albums and change the past, imagine how he will re-edit his past in his upcoming 'biography'?

 

[shayde]

the 3 were longer in Morrissey's band than The Smiths in [part =andy/gannon] whole

indeed Betrand a jounalist should check the facts before starting to write ,..

so do I

i think perhaps the point the journalist is trying to make is - think back to that time - morrissey had just come out of the smiths - and seemlessly into this collaboration with stephen street - there had been no miss-steps in his career to this stage. no bad songs. with viva hate (and the following singles written with street), he was still critically acclaimed, still lived up to the hype that he himself had built up. he had the backing of a mainstream label and it seemed like he could do no wrong, only build on the past critical success.

but what followed?

he lost street - which was arguably the point where his career went downhill (it wasn't losing marr). this album attested that he could still produce great songs, with the right collaborator. i think he then decided he didnt need marr or street and anyone could do. he was great enough by himself.

then there was the dreadful langer/nevin period, and his critical and commercial success nose-dived. it was his first serious mistake where he produced sub-par work.

boz and alain certainly pulled it back together for him.. but there have been many dreadful songs since.. possibly he has now written as many bad ones as good ones. (Dagenham Dave "tune-impaired three-minute drone" NME, people are the same everywhere, all you need is me, on the streets i ran etc etc)

but yeah i think the journalist is right... viva hate has him at the crossroads - where he proved he didnt need marr - and there could have been much greater critical and commercial success to follow. yet today he has a dreadful band, no label, and is left to ponder why? doing things like releasing a butchered album like this is certainly one of the reasons.

speaking for myself viva hate was the second morrissey release i brought, the first being meat is murder.. i think i only discovered them in 1987 and before i got the other smiths ones, they were gone, and viva hate had come out. and it was such a clean transition after listening to meat is murder then this. viva hate certainly holds a soft spot in my heart - and probably like many helped me as a teenager listening to these songs - as i'm sure it and the smiths helped many.

but morrissey changed from the sensitive, shy but still arrogant young man who wrote these songs into the confident thug persona he cultivates today. he's a different person, which is good. im sure he is much happier now. though there are very few songs he writes anymore that really connect (to anyone, i suspect), in the way these songs on viva hate did.

 

[joe frady]

Beautifully written 8/10 review in the new issue of 'Uncut' by the beautifully named Stephen Troussé. Full page distillation of the album's brilliance, and it's superiority to 'Strangeways'. Final two paragraphs mourn the trimming of the "moonglow reverie" that is 'Late Night, Maudlin Street' as well as the clumsy inclusion of the 'Treat Me Like A Human Being' demo. I can sense a pattern to these reviews, no?

Concludes with the comparison of Morrissey, with no new disc imminent, to Henry James and William Wordsworth, who also, late in the game, sought to tinker and meddle with their own earlier, more vital masterworks.

Also includes a pointless and baffling sidebar profile of Andrew Paresi/MacGibbon. No interview or comments on his work on 'VH', just a cv of his 'comedy work' on a late-night London radio show in the mid-90s which led to his work on Radio1 and Radio4. With a helpful photo too

 

[Peterb]

i think perhaps the point the journalist is trying to make is - think back to that time - morrissey had just come out of the smiths - and seemlessly into this collaboration with stephen street - there had been no miss-steps in his career to this stage. no bad songs. with viva hate (and the following singles written with street), he was still critically acclaimed, still lived up to the hype that he himself had built up. he had the backing of a mainstream label and it seemed like he could do no wrong, only build on the past critical success.

but what followed?

he lost street - which was arguably the point where his career went downhill (it wasn't losing marr). this album attested that he could still produce great songs, with the right collaborator. i think he then decided he didnt need marr or street and anyone could do. he was great enough by himself.

then there was the dreadful langer/nevin period, and his critical and commercial success nose-dived. it was his first serious mistake where he produced sub-par work.

boz and alain certainly pulled it back together for him.. but there have been many dreadful songs since.. possibly he has now written as many bad ones as good ones. (Dagenham Dave "tune-impaired three-minute drone" NME, people are the same everywhere, all you need is me, on the streets i ran etc etc)

but yeah i think the journalist is right... viva hate has him at the crossroads - where he proved he didnt need marr - and there could have been much greater critical and commercial success to follow. yet today he has a dreadful band, no label, and is left to ponder why? doing things like releasing a butchered album like this is certainly one of the reasons.

speaking for myself viva hate was the second morrissey release i brought, the first being meat is murder.. i think i only discovered them in 1987 and before i got the other smiths ones, they were gone, and viva hate had come out. and it was such a clean transition after listening to meat is murder then this. viva hate certainly holds a soft spot in my heart - and probably like many helped me as a teenager listening to these songs - as i'm sure it and the smiths helped many.

but morrissey changed from the sensitive, shy but still arrogant young man who wrote these songs into the confident thug persona he cultivates today. he's a different person, which is good. im sure he is much happier now. though there are very few songs he writes anymore that really connect (to anyone, i suspect), in the way these songs on viva hate did.

Dagenham Dave is a masterpiece!
Also, the man has been working solo now for something like 30 years. A few duds are inevitable. I would say the general quality is very very high. As for his band, well how good they are is a moot point and to say they are dreadful is a little harsh. I'm not so sure.
'Confident thug'? Not really.

 

[Anonymous]

Dear friend Peterb

Every time I scratch my eye on Solow (not very often these days, to much time consuming that is), your comment is - diamond.

we'll let you know

 

[wemissumoz]

Well if Stephen Street couldn't convince Morrissey that it was a mistake to drop Ordinary Boys, it's clear that no one could talk sense to him. I certainly would have bought this, but now I will not.

Just a thought, who played on this track? Did any of The Smiths sit in and thus Moz doesn't want them to get a dime? Only THAT would explain his stubbornness in refusing to keep Ordinary Boys off the record.

 

[alabamy]

A question... I wonder if the reviews were equally as harsh when "Maladjusted" was reissued without Roy's Keen and Papa Jack. Was there the same outcry among fans and reviewers over tampering with the Untouchable Past, with all this "what a blasphemy, how dares HE to remove MY favorite song"?

Dagenham Dave is a masterpiece!

True!

 

[Mr Reynolds]

If I had been indirectly responsible for breathing life into Preston and everything he represented after initially appearing to promise so much - I too would be traumatised enough to try to erase The Ordinary Boys from my past!

 

[Worm]

A question... I wonder if the reviews were equally as harsh when "Maladjusted" was reissued without Roy's Keen and Papa Jack. Was there the same outcry among fans and reviewers over tampering with the Untouchable Past, with all this "what a blasphemy, how dares HE to remove MY favorite song"?

Some reactions to the reissue

Mostly mixed. But that's probably because, on the whole, I think "Maladjusted" is not as well-liked as "Viva Hate".

The other reason there wasn't as much outcry is that the "Maladjusted" reissue seemed as if it was more carefully considered. It seemed as if Morrissey had really had a change of heart about the tracklisting.

With the "Viva Hate" reissue, his choices seem strange, and there's a sloppiness to the whole thing (aside from Street's remastering, which everyone agrees is excellent). One example: if, over the years, Morrissey gradually came to dislike the track listing, I can understand why he might have wanted to chop one song and shorten another. But why replace the chopped song with a demo? Why not add in any of the sterling B-sides from the singles-- what about "Oh Well, I'll Never Learn", for example, which was released on the "Suedehead" CD single and not as available as the other tracks? Or why not use the American track listing, substituting "Hairdresser On Fire" for "Ordinary Boys"? That was a good choice on Sire's part, back in 1988. Then, if he really liked 'Human Being', he could have put it out as an extra track on a 7" or something.

It comes down to his choices seeming thoughtful on one reissue and hasty and ill-considered on the other.

 

[Worm]

What an odd review -"After 20 years of stalled comebacks and scorned collaborators it seems odd to think of Morrissey as a mainstream contender"? "The future promised on and by Viva Hate failed to happen"? I guess the nineties never happened, and Moz didn't stage a glorious comeback in the early aughts. Nor did he have long, successful relationships with Alain, Boz or Jesse.

I usually like Ewing, but he's trying too hard to revise history to fit his notions.

I get what you're saying and to some extent you're right. I had the same reaction. But I think Ewing is basically correct, because he's talking about a time in Morrissey's career when there was the promise of massive mainstream success. Of course he had success later, which I think Ewing knows, but he's talking specifically about Morrissey's first album for EMI, the label to which The Smiths signed in 1987. When they did, there was a huge uproar because they were leaving an indie label, presumably to try and conquer the world with the backing of a big corporate label. Remember, 1987 was the year bands like U2, New Order, The Cure, and Depeche Mode broke through worldwide. The feeling was that The Smiths could become the biggest band in the world, and Morrissey got off to a fast start: "Viva Hate" was a #1 album, and his first four singles all went Top Ten (at a time when artists actually had to sell a lot of units to make the charts, unlike today or even 2004). Ewing is right to say the expectations were through the roof, and although Morrissey did go on to have a lot of success, it wasn't the success envisioned by most onlookers in '88.

 

[Orson Swells]

i think perhaps the point the journalist is trying to make is - think back to that time - morrissey had just come out of the smiths - and seemlessly into this collaboration with stephen street - there had been no miss-steps in his career to this stage. no bad songs. with viva hate (and the following singles written with street), he was still critically acclaimed, still lived up to the hype that he himself had built up. he had the backing of a mainstream label and it seemed like he could do no wrong, only build on the past critical success.

It's easy to look back at it like this now. But Viva Hate received pretty mixed reviews and many Smiths fans I knew left the fold at this point. Playboys and Drug had high chart placings, but also had a so-so critical reception.

but what followed? he lost street - which was arguably the point where his career went downhill (it wasn't losing marr). this album attested that he could still produce great songs, with the right collaborator. i think he then decided he didnt need marr or street and anyone could do. he was great enough by himself.

then there was the dreadful langer/nevin period, and his critical and commercial success nose-dived. it was his first serious mistake where he produced sub-par work.

Partly true, but remember Quija Board was a Street composition and responsible for his first full-throttle lambasting. And the initial Bona Drag material was very promising: November, Piccadilly, Girl Least Likely To. Kill Uncle was certainly a low, but the band had gelled by the end of the sessions producing My Love Life, I've Change My Plea, etc.

boz and alain certainly pulled it back together for him.. but there have been many dreadful songs since.. possibly he has now written as many bad ones as good ones. (Dagenham Dave "tune-impaired three-minute drone" NME, people are the same everywhere, all you need is me, on the streets i ran etc etc)

Nevin was also around for the Your Arsenal sessions too, co-writing You're Gonna Need Someone and I Know It's Gonna Happen - so the dividing line between the two eras is not as clearcut as it may seem. Personally, I feel Viva Hate is a mixed bag and I genuinely prefer Quarry and Refusal as overall albums.

 

[Worm]

But Viva Hate received pretty mixed reviews and many Smiths fans I knew left the fold at this point.

Well, the NME gave it 8 out of 10, Q gave it 4 out of 5, and even Rolling Stone gave it four stars out of five. The RS review captured what I remember as the common reaction to the album: "Overall, Viva Hale recalls the Smiths so consistently that it sounds downright conciliatory. Morrissey has paid his former band mates a perverse sort of tribute, when you think about it: he's nearly equaled them on his own. Nearly."

Great...just not The Smiths. Which, as you say, many fans couldn't tolerate.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I like Dagenham Dave too, plus one of the b sides was the majestic Nobody Loves Us. The local London evening news show actually went to Dagenham to play it to some blokes called Dave on release. They didn't like it, surprisingly enough. The best review was from some bullet headed builder... "I 'ate 'im to be honest."

I like VH just as it was, pretty much a perfect artifact of its time. I remember desperately wanting to love it being the first post-Smiths release and the joy at finding out it was a classic.

Of course, part of the problem is that we lovers of Viva Hate think of it as art, while the man himself probably sees it primarily as business. He would not be alone in the music industry thinking about the bottom line, and he has every right to do so, just as I have every right not to buy it.

 

[Orson Swells]

Well, the NME gave it 8 out of 10, Q gave it 4 out of 5, and even Rolling Stone gave it four stars out of five. The RS review captured what I remember as the common reaction to the album: "Overall, Viva Hale recalls the Smiths so consistently that it sounds downright conciliatory. Morrissey has paid his former band mates a perverse sort of tribute, when you think about it: he's nearly equaled them on his own. Nearly."

Great...just not The Smiths. Which, as you say, many fans couldn't tolerate.

The best reviews were kind of: close, but no cigar. There were several iffy ones. I can't remember whether one was in Melody Maker or Sounds. My memory fails me.

Viva Hate is certainly a great album, but thoroughly imperfect, though it's imperfections are very interesting.

You have three all-out classics in Suedehead, Sunday and Maudlin Street. Some great album tracks in Alsation, Angel and Break Up. Little Man is a really excellent curio. The rest are more average. The Ordinary Boys is pleasant enough. I Don't Mind is entertaining Moz by numbers. Dial-A-Cliche is weaker, yet wistful and touching. Margaret is weaker still, yet an effective (if anti-climactic) closer. Bengali is a complete mis-step - but, still, a rather tuneful one. Side two lets things down and is strangely uncohesive. So, yes: close, but no cigar!

 

[the raytownian]

then there was the dreadful langer/nevin period [...] it was his first serious mistake where he produced sub-par work.

False opinion.

 

[the raytownian]

"Confident thug" does seem fairly accurate though...

 

[the raytownian]

A question... I wonder if the reviews were equally as harsh when "Maladjusted" was reissued without Roy's Keen and Papa Jack. Was there the same outcry among fans and reviewers over tampering with the Untouchable Past, with all this "what a blasphemy, how dares HE to remove MY favorite song"?


True!

I can't say I recall reading any of the reviews for the Maladjusted re-issue, but I know there were plenty of people upset over the re-ordering of tracks on the Southpaw Grammar re-issue (which isn't terribly well-liked by a lot of folks either, though I suppose a good bit less maligned than Maladjusted).

Also, yeah, DD is a great tune.

 

[Worm]

The best reviews were kind of: close, but no cigar. There were several iffy ones. I can't remember whether one was in Melody Maker or Sounds. My memory fails me.

Viva Hate is certainly a great album, but thoroughly imperfect, though it's imperfections are very interesting.

You have three all-out classics in Suedehead, Sunday and Maudlin Street. Some great album tracks in Alsation, Angel and Break Up. Little Man is a really excellent curio. The rest are more average. The Ordinary Boys is pleasant enough. I Don't Mind is entertaining Moz by numbers. Dial-A-Cliche is weaker, yet wistful and touching. Margaret is weaker still, yet an effective (if anti-climactic) closer. Bengali is a complete mis-step - but, still, a rather tuneful one. Side two lets things down and is strangely uncohesive. So, yes: close, but no cigar!

What I love about "Viva Hate" now, but didn't appreciate as much at the time, is that the music succeeds in establishing and sustaining a fragile, searching, reflective mood. I agree it has its imperfections, but I think a lack of cohesion isn't one of them. To my ears it has always sounded pretty consistent, except for maybe "I Don't Mind If You Forget Me". From start to finish I feel swallowed up in an atmosphere I've always found unusual for Morrissey: not as rocky as The Smiths, but lusher and more detailed; not as campy and funny as "The Queen Is Dead", but filled out in spots with a more subtle sense of humor; and awash in hazy memories of the Seventies that felt more contemporary than the aura of the Fifties and Sixties evoked by Smiths records. It's the only album of his which looks at the past realistically. Bits of good, bits of bad, best exemplified in "Late Night, Maudlin Street" or "Break Up The Family". Nothing he describes is held up as some long-lost ideal of perfection, nor is anything in the past scorned or lamented, despite the gentle mockery of ankle stars and such. The past is neither hostile nor welcoming. The album gives you a queasy feeling of ambivalence about everything he's singing about, a strange (golden) dust lands on your hands, and on your face, and on everything else. So while I agree that a few of the songs are "average" on their own, as a collection they're all very good. Which is all the more reason not to have axed "Ordinary Boys".

 

[shayde]

It's easy to look back at it like this now. But Viva Hate received pretty mixed reviews and many Smiths fans I knew left the fold at this point. Playboys and Drug had high chart placings, but also had a so-so critical reception.



Partly true, but remember Quija Board was a Street composition and responsible for his first full-throttle lambasting. And the initial Bona Drag material was very promising: November, Piccadilly, Girl Least Likely To. Kill Uncle was certainly a low, but the band had gelled by the end of the sessions producing My Love Life, I've Change My Plea, etc.



Nevin was also around for the Your Arsenal sessions too, co-writing You're Gonna Need Someone and I Know It's Gonna Happen - so the dividing line between the two eras is not as clearcut as it may seem. Personally, I feel Viva Hate is a mixed bag and I genuinely prefer Quarry and Refusal as overall albums.

ouija board was certainly written by street, but he was in the out tray by then, and it was produced rather limply by langer, and was as i remember the first unanimous critical savaging. i suspect the song would have been a different affair if stephen street had been around to give it his big sweeping pop production. likewise mark nevin probably wasn't the issue either as he's stated he wanted kill uncle more guitar driven, but was vetoed by langer and morrissey. and you're right the left over nevin songs that were produced by ronson and played by boz and alain were the highlights of Your Arsenal. i just remember the period post street - until boz and alain coming along as being pretty bleak for fans expecting a lot of morrissey's music. some real dross released with very iffy lyrics. a bit like today actually.