What was Morrissey trying to do...

[Roma De Moz]

...with 'Southpaw Grammar'?

Having given this a listen once more, it still begs the question. Ranked alongside 'Kill Uncle' as Morrissey's weakest foray musically, the album is indeed an oddity. Lyrically, it's a more urgent record than the sombre resignation that made 'Vauxhall and I' such a gentle album, but musically it attempts a hard rock sound which comes of more repetitious than anything else.

Morrissey singing about working-class criminality is nothing new, but the sheer romanticism of the theme in this album, makes me think he made it with the intention of putting out a very personal album for someone else, or a group of individuals closer to him than the average fan. Jake, anyone? After having fulfilled his intentions with the beautiful Vauxhall, I believe Morrissey was quite willing to sacrifice the album as being inevitably ill-received by his general fan base, and make something far more intimate for a select few.

What do you all think?

 

[nightandday]

...with 'Southpaw Grammar'?

Having given this a listen once more, it still begs the question. Ranked alongside 'Kill Uncle' as Morrissey's weakest foray musically, the album is indeed an oddity. Lyrically, it's a more urgent record than the sombre resignation that made 'Vauxhall and I' such a gentle album, but musically it attempts a hard rock sound which comes of more repetitious than anything else.

Morrissey singing about working-class criminality is nothing new, but the sheer romanticism of the theme in this album, makes me think he made it with the intention of putting out a very personal album for someone else, or a group of individuals closer to him than the average fan. Jake, anyone? After having fulfilled his intentions with the beautiful Vauxhall, I believe Morrissey was quite willing to sacrifice the album as being inevitably ill-received by his general fan base, and make something far more intimate for a select few.

What do you all think?

He wanted to make an album 'for' Jake so he put a bitter song like "Best Friend On A Payroll" on it?

I don't understand what you base your conclusion on. How do you know Jake is more interested (or even, if he is as interested) in working-class criminality than Morrissey himself is?

What does the subject of "Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils" have to do with Jake? Or "Do Your Best And Don't Worry"? Do you think "Southpaw" is about Jake? Because if I was going to make a guess about who it is, I'd say it was about Morrissey. 'so you ran back to your ma, which set the pace for the rest of your days...and the girl of your dreams is here all alone, and the girl of your dreams is sad and all alone...'

 

[Roma De Moz]

He wanted to make an album 'for' Jake so he put a bitter song like "Best Friend On A Payroll" on it?

I didn't say the album had to be personal in a pleasing form, but perhaps a round of to an unstable, yet pinnacle relationship with a particular scene, and person(s) in Morrissey's life.

In David Bret's, Passion and Scandal, he talks about a Morrissey interview where the man himself admitted to liking boxing, taking part in boxing, and enjoying both ends of the physical side. This was during his era with Jake, and talks about the relevance that the scene may have had for Morrissey when he recorded Southpaw Grammar. How the violence and social factor may have helped shape the work. This isn't proof of course, but I think it's a strong possibility.

Tracks like 'Reader Meet Author', 'The Operation' and yes, 'Best Friend on the Payroll' seem to echo this relevance.

 

[bobalmighty]

I Love Southpaw Grammar. But I love all the albums. I always approach the albums with an open mind and not have expectations. I found this album really good, if a little short.

 

[Roma De Moz]

I have the same problem with Southpaw that I do with Ringleader. Both could have been career highs when you take the concept of each. Musically though, they fall frustratingly short. Southpaw is more guilty of this; due to the prog-rock nature of some of the songs which just strike me as self-indulgent rather than of any artistic merit.

 

[nightandday]

I didn't say the album had to be personal in a pleasing form, but perhaps a round of to an unstable, yet pinnacle relationship with a particular scene, and person(s) in Morrissey's life.

In David Bret's, Passion and Scandal, he talks about a Morrissey interview where the man himself admitted to liking boxing, taking part in boxing, and enjoying both ends of the physical side. This was during his era with Jake, and talks about the relevance that the scene may have had for Morrissey when he recorded Southpaw Grammar. How the violence and social factor may have helped shape the work. This isn't proof of course, but I think it's a strong possibility.

Tracks like 'Reader Meet Author', 'The Operation' and yes, 'Best Friend on the Payroll' seem to echo this relevance.

You don't need to use David Bret's book as a reference (actually, I hope you don't, I've read just some parts of it and I was amazed at the number of misquotes and general crappiness), it's common knowledge. I've read the interviews with Morrissey where he talked about his love of boxing. He even bragged "I was in a few fights myself, and I never lost". he also posed for photos with some boxers, and for photos of himself as a boxer, in this Select interview: http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/interviews/1994/glove.htm

Jake is also mentioned in this article:

It's a bad day at Hook End. The reason, as ever: the press. Morrissey's personal assistant-cum-chief of staff Jake - a stocky ex-boxer at the 20s-30s crossroads, with a skinhead crop, a white Fred Perry-style shirt and hard blue eyes - is furious about a "stitch-up" of Morrissey by Julie Burchill in that morning's Sunday Times. He had had to go on a ten-mile run that morning "to work off the aggression", he says, and he makes it clear that Burchill should count herself lucky she's not a man, otherwise...
Jake's loyalty to Morrissey couldn't be fiercer. As he leads me to the studio's sitting-room, he tells me how frustrated he is that nothing he's ever read about Morrissey ever communicates what a great bloke as well as a talent Moz is, that he doesn't deserve the things that are written about him. And that if this piece is a similar stitch-up to the Burchill story, I'd better watch my back.
It's a big lounge and on one of three couches there's a turntable with a handwritten notice reading "DO NOT PLAY THIS WHILE MOZ IS ASLEEP AS HE IS OLD AND NEEDS HIS KIP" - "I wrote that, but don't read it," Jake grins as he leaves.

from another interview http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/interviews/1994/homme.htm:

We have been talking now for nearly two hours when there's a knock on the door It is Jake, a close friend of Morrissey's, who receives "very special thanks" on the new LP. Jake is fair-haired and ordinary-looking, also dressed in urban rockabilly clothes. He is shy and avoids my gaze. He and Morrissey leave together. (...)
The next day Morrissey spends some of the afternoon watching boxing on TV and then wanders down to my room. Jake leaves him at the door and arranges to pick him up later.
(...)
Morrissey says that he doesn't have many friends. When asked to list them, he names three: Jake, who hovers outside my door, another friend called Debbie, and this old friend Linder Sterling, who recently published a book of photographs, Morrissey Shot. These, he says, are strong friends. They are in his life more or less daily. But he still envies the easy, close friendship of others.


from Dave Simpson's infamous 1998 article, which can hardly be relied upon, as it's full of speculation and misquotes http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/interviews/1998/uncut.htm:

"That time was very good for him," says Jo Slee. Much of the time, Mozzer's companion was Jake Walters, a diminutive skinhead former boxer with what insiders describe as a "checquered past". Although Walters is loathe to speak about Morrissey, he will confirm that they shared a house and were "best mates".
"The most interesting and fascinating character I've ever met," confesses Walters, understandably. Jake was never on the payroll, but became Morrissey's personal assistant as soon as a stressed-out Jo resigned. Morrissey was also particularly friendly with Murray Chalmers, his press officer at EMI.

The Morrissey gallery on motorcycleaupairboy site has this info from NME:

"This photo by Kevin Cummins was published in the March 26, 1994 NME with the following caption:

Just who is the boy with The Moz by his side? The enigmatic Jake, the chap who gets a "very special thanks" on the sleeve of Vauxhall and I has been a bit of a mystery in recent times, lurking in the shadows when Steven's popped out to the pub or the odd HMV record shop.

Now, all can be revealed. Continuing Morrissey's patronage of bands who disappear overnight, Jake was previously best known as top DJ at The Dirt Box and as leading light of One Little Indian recording stars Big Hard Excellent Fish along with former Pete Wylie paramour Josie Jones."


I don't know why people seem to assume that Morrissey became interested in boxing because of Jake? The whole thing about 'Jake the Boxer' has been blown out of proportion. There's very little actual info about him, and we just have 1 NME and 1 Uncut journalist mentioning that he was 'ex-boxer' (the latter journalist is especially unreliable considering the other crap he wrote in his article, so I'd be very careful about taking his 'insider info' about the so-called 'checkered past' at face value), nobody even made it clear how serious it was - professional or just amateur? for how long? For all we know, he might not have been much more of a boxer than Morrissey was.

 

[nightandday]

...with 'Southpaw Grammar'?

Having given this a listen once more, it still begs the question. Ranked alongside 'Kill Uncle' as Morrissey's weakest foray musically, the album is indeed an oddity. Lyrically, it's a more urgent record than the sombre resignation that made 'Vauxhall and I' such a gentle album, but musically it attempts a hard rock sound which comes of more repetitious than anything else.

Morrissey singing about working-class criminality is nothing new, but the sheer romanticism of the theme in this album, makes me think he made it with the intention of putting out a very personal album for someone else, or a group of individuals closer to him than the average fan. Jake, anyone? After having fulfilled his intentions with the beautiful Vauxhall, I believe Morrissey was quite willing to sacrifice the album as being inevitably ill-received by his general fan base, and make something far more intimate for a select few.

What do you all think?

And in the answer to the original question:

Southpaw Grammar is pretty much the opposite of Kill Uncle. Kill Uncle was Morrissey with his typical themes (for the most part) and not very challenging or different musically (apart from Asian Rut), and its bad reception proved that he has stretched the public's patience with the typical Morrissey persona. The bad reception was probably due to some people being fed-up with Morrissey's self-obsessed, self-pitying lyrics, as much as to its being musically weaker than his earlier work. He seems to have become fed up with his own persona by that time, too, so he made some drastic changes in his music and in his image for Your Arsenal.

Southpaw Grammar, on the other hand, happened when he had just had success with Vauxhall & I, which was a classic Morrissey album. Southpaw Grammar was his attempt to make something different and more challenging, different from what people would expect from him. No Morrissey photo on the cover - instead, the cover was another 'found image', as in the Smiths days (he now says he regrets his choice of the cover); no classic Morrissey pop songs or ballads - instead, you get hard rock/prog rock, with a couple of very long songs at the beginning and end of the album. His lyrics are also not typical Morrissey. Songs like "The Boy Racer" and "Dagenham Dave", together with the sound and the cover, show that Morrissey's idea might have been to deal with the subject of masculinity, particularly the classic macho, working-class masculinity. Maybe that is why the album feels like it does - I think that the reason I find this album hard to swallow is that it is, lyrically and not just musically, hard, cold and bitter. I find very little romanticism on this album, and the idea that is especially personal is rather surprising to me, as I find it the least personal of all his albums, and even when it touches on personal matters, there is very, very little warmness or love there (and by that I mean 'love' in the sense of love in general, for people and things).

It's not surprising that "Nobody Loves Us" and "You Must Please Remember" were left out of the album, as they did not fit into the concept (I think Alain Whyte has actually said that): the latter is one of the most personal-sounding and saddest Morrissey B-sides (notice how personal many of his B-sides are), and the former is a classic Smiths-like anthem for outsiders. Someone might argue that the latter was not good enough for the album, but I don't think anyone could argue that about "Nobody Loves Us", which Morrissey himself has said is one of his best songs.

 

[faroffplaces]

I have the same problem with Southpaw that I do with Ringleader. Both could have been career highs when you take the concept of each. Musically though, they fall frustratingly short. Southpaw is more guilty of this; due to the prog-rock nature of some of the songs which just strike me as self-indulgent rather than of any artistic merit.

I love them both musically and think they are career highs - but even I will totally acknowledge that I've chewed on both a lot more than I've actually listened to them. Ringleader requires the right mood to hit me as it should, and Southpaw, yes, the Prog...

I dunno. I feel like there was actual intention there; the lyrics and delivery are so full of paranoia and enclosing violence that I suspect the Prog exists to add to that atmosphere - to create some sense of massive, icky space in which the voice itself is somewhat lost...? Sort've a "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" writ large. But I think the realization of that idea doesn't quite work out, or else is done in a way that has great meaning for Morrissey, but little for me; to me, it's too enthusiastically, robustly rocking to connect. The exception is "Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils" which manages a really interseting and complex atmosphere that merges with the song.

As for the overall purpose of this album, at this time - I agree that Jake probably has a lot to do with it; shame we don't know enough about Jake to properly guess at how that works. I've always faintly suspected that a few of the songs' narrators are meant to be Jake speaking to Morrissey, but as we don't know what their friendship was really like, I have no idea whether I'm talking about "Do Your Best & Don't Worry" or "The Operation." Come to think of it, I've never worked out what "The Operation" might actually mean, though it's awfully fun to try.

I think it can have "Best Friend on the Payroll" on it and still be reasonably affectionate (while acknowledging pain). That said, Morrissey has a habit of expressing very gory emotions in light songs, as if these things sometimes can't be scraped otherwise...

Even more than an album about the end of a close relationship (of whatever type) it's always struck me as a work about real, deadly depression and self-loathing, of which feelings re: the end of the relationship is only a part - which is not to say it doesn't have wit and perspective, but that's still what I tend to get out of its eight declarative, merciless, somewhat stony-faced tracks.

Ultimately I've always found Southpaw somewhat incomprehensable. I read the details in a relatively consistent manner, but tend to insert different things into its heart according to my mood. Someday we'll probably know enough biographical information on Morrissey to get a sense of the specifics behind it - in the meantime he explains so little (it's almost the flip of Vauxhall, in which he "just can't explain, so he won't even try to"), even of his emotions, that I've never quite been able to read it freely.

(The lack of described emotion, save again on "The Teachers...," makes me suspect that the album has a lot to do with the difficulties of traditional masculinity, or at least the narrow range of expression one is allowed if one wants to be thought "properly masculine." See "The Boy Racer," which really seethes with a weird mix of loathing and competititon and desire, but tries to distill all of these emotions into a simple "I'm jealous, that's all").

Is it weird that, despite its completely confunding me half the time, and despite the fact that I really think the Prog's a failed experiment, I really regard Southpaw as one of his two or three best? I'm just inclined to trust it, for some reason. With some pieces -including Morrissey pieces- out there, I feel that they don't always make sense simply because they're not thought out and considered - with Southpaw, conversely, I tend to assume there's something to find, that there's a reason behind each decision, even the drum solo.

 

[nightandday]

the lyrics and delivery are so full of paranoia and enclosing violence that I suspect the Prog exists to add to that atmosphere.

(...)


it's always struck me as a work about real, deadly depression and self-loathing, of which feelings re: the end of the relationship is only a part - which is not to say it doesn't have wit and perspective, but that's still what I tend to get out of its eight declarative, merciless, somewhat stony-faced tracks.

(...)

(The lack of described emotion, save again on "The Teachers...," makes me suspect that the album has a lot to do with the difficulties of traditional masculinity, or at least the narrow range of expression one is allowed if one wants to be thought "properly masculine." See "The Boy Racer," which really seethes with a weird mix of loathing and competititon and desire, but tries to distill all of these emotions into a simple "I'm jealous, that's all").

I agree with all this, you've expressed some of the things I was trying to say.

I also think I might have used the wrong word when I said it was not 'personal'. All Morrissey albums are very personal, and this one is about his own problems and doubts. I don't think it was 'for Jake' or 'about Jake', I think it's, as always, about Morrissey and for Morrissey. What I was really trying to say is that the album is very...unloving. In the sense of the lack of love, or any positive emotions, for other people, for things, for himself.

I've always faintly suspected that a few of the songs' narrators are meant to be Jake speaking to Morrissey, but as we don't know what their friendship was really like, I have no idea whether I'm talking about "Do Your Best & Don't Worry" or "The Operation." Come to think of it, I've never worked out what "The Operation" might actually mean, though it's awfully fun to try.

I always thought that many of Morrissey's songs are written as an address to himself - either himself talking to himself, or from the position of another person (not necessarily someone particular), and I see "Do Your Best And Don't Worry" and "Southpaw" in that light.

 

[faroffplaces]

Songs like "The Boy Racer" and "Dagenham Dave", together with the sound and the cover, show that Morrissey's idea might have been to deal with the subject of masculinity, particularly the classic macho, working-class masculinity. Maybe that is why the album feels like it does - I think that the reason I find this album hard to swallow is that it is, lyrically and not just musically, hard, cold and bitter.

...

the latter is one of the most personal-sounding and saddest Morrissey B-sides (notice how personal many of his B-sides are), and the former is a classic Smiths-like anthem for outsiders. Someone might argue that the latter was not good enough for the album, but I don't think anyone could argue that about "Nobody Loves Us", which Morrissey himself has said is one of his best songs.

I hadn't really noticed the pattern of the B-sides but I'm thinking about it now, and I agree. Sorry I restated your point about masculinity - I didn't do it on purpose, I think this post hadn't quite gone live when I started on mine.

 

[faroffplaces]

I always thought that many of Morrissey's songs are written as an address to himself - either himself talking to himself, or from the position of another person (not necessarily someone particular), and I see "Do Your Best And Don't Worry" and "Southpaw" in that light.

Agreed, totally; a lot of the time I can't even conceive of any reading other than "he's speaking directly to himself."

Curiously, the idea seems to have fallen out of favor a bit, hasn't it? Some bits of Maladjusted, Ringleader and Quarry strike me as self-addressed, but no entire songs, as opposed to Vauxhall and Southpaw where the conceit was used left and right.

 

[9 x Fined]

I think because so many fans wanted a Vauxhall Part Deux, he intentionally threw listeners a curve with Southpaw. More like a punishing uppercut, perhaps.

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again.

best.
moz.
album.
ever.


It has the drama, intensity and pure adrenaline of the most rousing of heavyweight bouts. Most probably his intention.

And the cover? Well....

 

[Roma De Moz]

I think because so many fans wanted a Vauxhall Part Deux, he intentionally threw listeners a curve with Southpaw. I've said it a million times and I'll say it again.

best.
moz.
album.
ever.


It has the drama, intensity and pure adrenaline of the most rousing of heavyweight bouts. Most probably his intention.

And the cover? Well....

You serious? Could you elaborate please?

I've already said that the album could potentially have been a Moz masterpiece, but falls short, more musically than lyrically. But, 'best Moz album ever'? Well...

 

[9 x Fined]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

 

[Roma De Moz]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

I just wanted you to substantiate your claims more in depth. I was intrigued, is that a crime?

 

[9 x Fined]

You don't need a long, wordy narrative from me. You either get SG or you don't. It's that simple.

 

[Roma De Moz]

Thanks for helping me understand. I was lost before. Now, I am found.

 

[Sir Alec]

It is funny to watch you people argue about Southpaw Grammer, when it all comes down to personal taste. Opinions are not set in stone. Just because you love/dislike Southpaw Grammer doesn't mean the album is good/bad.

 

[Adam Peter]

It's not surprising that "Nobody Loves Us" and "You Must Please Remember" were left out of the album, as they did not fit into the concept (I think Alain Whyte has actually said that): the latter is one of the most personal-sounding and saddest Morrissey B-sides (notice how personal many of his B-sides are), and the former is a classic Smiths-like anthem for outsiders. Someone might argue that the latter was not good enough for the album, but I don't think anyone could argue that about "Nobody Loves Us", which Morrissey himself has said is one of his best songs.

Well, normally I only lurk around here. I find reading peoples posts enlightening, but rarely get the urge to post. I guess I'm just feeling inspired to now because I am lucky to be seeing him in a few weeks in Chicago.

Nobody Loves Us is the only Morrissey Solo song that my fiancee really likes. She likes the Smiths a lot, but I haven't really been able to get her to like the solo stuff. So in the far off chance that Moz should hear about this, well I don't need to say it but, she'll be at the show with me. (She's very loving, yes?)

Anyhow, I love Southpaw, I used to think I knew exactly what it meant, but I was plain out of my head at that time, in most ways. Now-a-days I still love it, what it means to me is mine. There was a time when I would have found all of this Jake talk very interesting, but now, well to put it as gently as possible, I find it a bit creepy. Are we Moz lovers or Moz stalkers here? I don't know, you be the judge for yourselves just keep it in mind. I don't think anyone here has definitively crossed any line, but this delving into someones private life, is a very fine line to walk. If Morrissey wanted everyone to know, he would come out and say it, otherwise, I count it as none of my business these days.

As for masculinity exploration, and violence, and all that kind of thing, (thanks to Arnold there!), all very interesting observations.

 

[the more you explore me!]

It is funny to watch you people argue about Southpaw Grammer, when it all comes down to personal taste. Opinions are not set in stone. Just because you love/dislike Southpaw Grammer doesn't mean the album is good/bad.

too right sir.