Where did all those Mexicans come from?

[URsula]

MIRA PAISANO, rOB

Y te lo digo , sinceramente , no te sientas ofendido, por el adjetivo.
No te voy a contestar un choro de gueva , porque aquí no es la secretaria de relaciones exteriores y menos voy a mencionar al asqueroso gobierno no solo de Mexico ,ni en general a la política x que solo destruye y logra lo que tu estas haciendo.
Yo SIGO viviendo en Mexico , no me ha dado miedo seguir en MI pais, y largarme al desafanarme de él.
Para tu información ni mi papi, ni mi mami, me mandaron a Milan ...--que por cierto nosé como supiste-- Porque no tengo 17 años,ni 23.--tampoco 30 eh?--
YO SOLITA, sobandome el lomo me pago TODOS MIS CAPRICHOS, hm? has oido hablar de la palabra "trabajo"? Tampoco soy millonaria , ni corrupta, solo soy una true fan de Mozz, con ganas y recursos afortunadamente buenos para viajar ok?...
Y aun así el baro no lo es todo, Ya ves , compré boletos para San Diego y LA, pagados. y ni siquiera pude ir.
pero esperate a que vuelva turear mi novio Mozzy...
neto, UrsulA
ahí stá mi mail arriba

 

[John]

Re: Rob

>I just wanted to say that every post you have written this last week I totally agree with and I think there are few people that can understand what we are getting at. People can call me rascist or anything else, the whole point is, is that this is not a white/mexican issue. I went to the Palladium show on the 15th and I could not believe this whole macho attitude SOME of these hispanic "rebels" had. I have been to 8 previous shows since 1991 and I have never seen anything like it except in San Diego '97 which sucked also for the exact same reasons. On wed., during the Sack set, I was about 15 ft from the stage, with hardly any breathing room and this big, pelon "macho mexicano" just says to me, "get out of the way." I just looked at him and though, yeah where the hell do you want me to go. Again he said, "get out of my way, let me though." I ignored him and this cabron wanted to start a fight with me. He said," you don't want to start nothing with me," trying to make me scared. He then said, " let me through because my chica can't see." The he busted this mad dog look at me and wanted to fight. It wasn't until his girlfriend, obviously more inteligent than this mamon, told him that he was acting stupid and he laid off me. This is the kind of mierda that happened all night. Idiots pushing just to push, this one other pelon threw his elbow into my throat, just crap like that all night AND yes, sorry to tell the truth, they were all hispanics the ones that made the show less enjoyable. I am not some small little bitch complaining that people were mean to me, I am just saying that I don't understand why a certain group of people have to walk around like there are superior to everyone else and that they could do whatever they please. And all this crap about Morrissey loving Mexico is such a joke, c'mon people this 40 year old, close to washed up man has to find some way to attract new listeners, so he notices that he has a large hispanic fan base and like the inteligent person he is, he plays along with it. How can any person with a brain take Morrissey seriously when he says something like " I wish I was born Mexican.?" I lived in Mexico for a few years, and I know that Morrissey wouldn't last there a day unless it were Cancun drinking a Corona being served hand and foot by someone making $20 a week. Anyways, mejor ya no digo mas porque alguien alli va a decir que soy un RACSISTA!

Ya Basta!

 

[John]

Re:BECCA; YOU´RE SO RIGHT!

Becca doesn't speak spanish. Soy 100% gabacho y tambien vivi en mexico por un tiempo y estoy de acuerdo con Rob, aunque si, me gustaria regresar muy pronto. Con lo que dijo Becca de que ella conoce a muchos mexicanos muy amables y carinosos, pues yo tambien, mi novia, quien es 100% Mexicana y lo chistoso es que muchos, no todos, de los chicanos, como los cholos y rebels le da mucha verguenza de ser Mexicana porque dice ella que es la culpa de ellos que muchos norteamericanos tienen una mal imagen de Mexico y los Mexicanos de verdad.
It is very interesting how many true Mexicans, who live in Mexico, have nothing in common with chicanos, because their life and behavior is so different. I know many people in Mexico who say that many of the chicanos give them a bad name and they want nothing to do with them. Go ahead and make your own judgments , me vale madre.
And befor BECCA and SUZANNE get all crazy . . .OF COURSE, I do not refer to ALL chicanos, for most of my friends are chicanos and are great people.

John

tambien le daria muchos elogios a Mexico si mi papi me
> enviara a Milan para poder ir a Morrissey. Mexico, seria de lo
> mejor si mi papi y mami pagaran para que yo pudiera ver a
> Morrissey cada vez que se de me diera la gana.

> Pues como yo no puedo impartir los mismos sentimientos, creo que
> en cierta forma no concuerdo contigo. Talvez tenga celos, no se,
> pero pienso que le estas dando demasiados credito a un pais que
> esta destruido por la avaricia. Son pocos los que son ricos,
> pero ellos son los que tienen todo el poder y lo usan oprimir la
> otras personas que no constituyen este grupo.

> Si Mexico, talvez sea muy lindo cuando tienes dinero para ir
> gastar y gozar, pero no se conmueve tu ser en fijarte en todas
> la demas gente que esta ahi sufriendo?!?

> Mi pregunta, que elogios le puedo dar a un pais que representa
> tanta injusticia?!?

> Yo soy mexicano y vivi un tiempo en Mexico, pero la verdad es
> que nunca me gustaria regresar alla, solo en ver tanta
> injusticia y en ver como habeces mi familia sufre/sufria
> innecesariamente porque ellos no son parte de el poderio de es
> pais.

 

[East]

Re: I disagree!

I did mean rebels, not anyone of mexican heritage. But it still pisses me off. They are not here for the right reasons at all.

 

[Becca]

Re: You are terribly misinformed

She (your sis) didn't see any RUDE Mexicans, but you don't have to say "rude" so I know what you mean. But for some on this board you have to use the word "rude" or whatever. But like always I don't take offense, then again not like it would matter if I did. Oh well!

> I ask my sister (she is Mexican you know- heh heh)… how was the
> concert (referring to the second night at the palladium)?

> Nonchalantly, she answers, there weren't that many Mexicans
> tonight so it was way better.

 

[Becca]

Re:What the hell did u just say ROB?

I don't understand spanish! Or did u do that on purpose ya goof!

> Oh--yo tambien le daria muchos elogios a Mexico si mi papi me
> enviara a Milan para poder ir a Morrissey. Mexico, seria de lo
> mejor si mi papi y mami pagaran para que yo pudiera ver a
> Morrissey cada vez que se de me diera la gana.

> Pues como yo no puedo impartir los mismos sentimientos, creo que
> en cierta forma no concuerdo contigo. Talvez tenga celos, no se,
> pero pienso que le estas dando demasiados credito a un pais que
> esta destruido por la avaricia. Son pocos los que son ricos,
> pero ellos son los que tienen todo el poder y lo usan oprimir la
> otras personas que no constituyen este grupo.

> Si Mexico, talvez sea muy lindo cuando tienes dinero para ir
> gastar y gozar, pero no se conmueve tu ser en fijarte en todas
> la demas gente que esta ahi sufriendo?!?

> Mi pregunta, que elogios le puedo dar a un pais que representa
> tanta injusticia?!?

> Yo soy mexicano y vivi un tiempo en Mexico, pero la verdad es
> que nunca me gustaria regresar alla, solo en ver tanta
> injusticia y en ver como habeces mi familia sufre/sufria
> innecesariamente porque ellos no son parte de el poderio de es
> pais.

 

[Becca]

Re: U TOO URSULA? WHAT?

> Y te lo digo , sinceramente , no te sientas ofendido, por el
> adjetivo.
> No te voy a contestar un choro de gueva , porque aquí no es la
> secretaria de relaciones exteriores y menos voy a mencionar al
> asqueroso gobierno no solo de Mexico ,ni en general a la
> política x que solo destruye y logra lo que tu estas haciendo.
> Yo SIGO viviendo en Mexico , no me ha dado miedo seguir en MI
> pais, y largarme al desafanarme de él.
> Para tu información ni mi papi, ni mi mami, me mandaron a Milan
> ...--que por cierto nosé como supiste-- Porque no tengo 17
> años,ni 23.--tampoco 30 eh?--
> YO SOLITA, sobandome el lomo me pago TODOS MIS CAPRICHOS, hm?
> has oido hablar de la palabra "trabajo"? Tampoco soy
> millonaria , ni corrupta, solo soy una true fan de Mozz, con
> ganas y recursos afortunadamente buenos para viajar ok?...
> Y aun así el baro no lo es todo, Ya ves , compré boletos para
> San Diego y LA, pagados. y ni siquiera pude ir.
> pero esperate a que vuelva turear mi novio Mozzy...
> neto, UrsulA
> ahí stá mi mail arriba

 

[Becca]

Re:I Read that very slow - YO ENTENDI LO QUE USTED DIJO

I'm so proud of myself!

> Becca doesn't speak spanish. Soy 100% gabacho y tambien vivi en
> mexico por un tiempo y estoy de acuerdo con Rob, aunque si, me
> gustaria regresar muy pronto. Con lo que dijo Becca de que ella
> conoce a muchos mexicanos muy amables y carinosos, pues yo
> tambien, mi novia, quien es 100% Mexicana y lo chistoso es que
> muchos, no todos, de los chicanos, como los cholos y rebels le
> da mucha verguenza de ser Mexicana porque dice ella que es la
> culpa de ellos que muchos norteamericanos tienen una mal imagen
> de Mexico y los Mexicanos de verdad.
> It is very interesting how many true Mexicans, who live in
> Mexico, have nothing in common with chicanos, because their life
> and behavior is so different. I know many people in Mexico who
> say that many of the chicanos give them a bad name and they want
> nothing to do with them. Go ahead and make your own judgments ,
> me vale madre.
> And befor BECCA and SUZANNE get all crazy . . .OF COURSE, I do
> not refer to ALL chicanos, for most of my friends are chicanos
> and are great people.

> John

> tambien le daria muchos elogios a Mexico si mi papi me

 

[URsula]

Re: NO I DON´T , BECCA

Beccca, this is the translation , I´m no close minded at all...
I posted this reply in spanish coz this guy -rob- wrote the reply for me , in spanish ...
He is nagging me in spanish , telling that how could I be proud of Mexico if people like me make it horrible like my "parents" who are millionaire and sent me to Milan to see Morrissey.
What I answered to this guy is the truth, in spanish , Of course I´m not mililionaire , and I´m not 17 years or 23 ,for having my parents paying my whims...I told Him I MYSELF with the sweat of my back PAY my MOZZ WHIMS..coz I work hard for it, and besides I do not live in Th US and I´m not mexican -american , I am and been living in Mexico since I was born, I live in Mexico city , And I´m proud of it.
I speak perfectly well spanish and english, that´s it.
But I can see that just american-mexicans . come here......--or chicanos or whatever you call them ..
I WOULD NEVER be ashamned of telling where I´m from.
oh nevermind ..

 

[Becca]

Re: NO I DON´T , BECCA

THANKS FOR THAT!

> Beccca, this is the translation , I´m no close minded at all...
> I posted this reply in spanish coz this guy -rob- wrote the
> reply for me , in spanish ...
> He is nagging me in spanish , telling that how could I be proud
> of Mexico if people like me make it horrible like my
> "parents" who are millionaire and sent me to Milan to
> see Morrissey.
> What I answered to this guy is the truth, in spanish , Of course
> I´m not mililionaire , and I´m not 17 years or 23 ,for having my
> parents paying my whims...I told Him I MYSELF with the sweat of
> my back PAY my MOZZ WHIMS..coz I work hard for it, and besides I
> do not live in Th US and I´m not mexican -american , I am and
> been living in Mexico since I was born, I live in Mexico city ,
> And I´m proud of it.
> I speak perfectly well spanish and english, that´s it.
> But I can see that just american-mexicans . come here......--or
> chicanos or whatever you call them ..
> I WOULD NEVER be ashamned of telling where I´m from.
> oh nevermind ..

 

[John]

Re:I Read that very slow - YO ENTENDI LO QUE USTED DIJO

> I'm so proud of myself!

Felicidades!!

 

[Esteban Soto]

By the way, Ribena, if your going to be a bigot at least get your racial slurs right. A "greaser" is a racial term for an Italian, not Mexican. Then again, you're a brit. I understand you can't help it that your race is ignorant and mundane. I pity an existence such as yours.

 

[K]

YOU ARE STUPID SOTO.

> By the way, Ribena, if you're going to be a bigot at least get
> your racial slurs right. A "greaser" is a racial term
> for an Italian, not Mexican. Then again, you're a brit. I
> understand you can't help it that your race is ignorant and
> mundane. I pity an existence such as yours.

You are one ignorant idiot Esteban. I feel like I didn't say it enough in my other message. I want to hear you admit that you're a bigot too. Then I want you to admit that because of this, you're no better than the one you're ripping into. Then I want you to feel guilty for your ignorance. Then I want you to cry, then kill yourself because you scare me. You're like the skinheads in my neighborhood who talk about wanting sympathy for having their race "under fire," then they go out and beat up a black kid with a baseball bat before going home to have dinner with their younger brothers or sisters.

 

[rob]

Re: You are terribly misinformed

> Actually, there are many hispanics who are strictly of European
> descent and are as fair skinned as anyone, so technically, that
> explanation doesn't fit.

> And since many of those "blend in" with your typical
> anglo crowd, you are basically taking out your frustrations on
> the ones with noticeable Indian heritage.

You have a rebuttal for everything don't you?!?

O.K.--I'll play your game. Not all Mexicans of Indian (Well, first of, they should not be technically called "Indian" because Indian is a term used for people from the country of India. It really should be Native Mexicans) descent are brown. I know quite a few Native Mexicans that have a white complexion. So your explanation doesn't fit either… So there!

> They don't exactly perform an IQ test as part of the ticket
> purchase requirement.....

> They want your money. They don't care if you are stupid, have a
> 3rd arm jutting from your butt, or are just like the guys at
> Night at the Roxbury. If you present $50, they hand you a
> ticket.

> Now, if they started refusing to sell tickets because of what
> the person looked like, I have a big problem, and so should you.

> Do you remember the Jim Crow laws?

Yeah-But that doesn't mean that I can't complain about those people.

Remember the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

> Um, so did I, and it didn't get anywhere...

Why not?

Don't you have a decent job? Or is that you're set on becoming a successful singer/performer?

I believe that if chose your field carefully and study hard in college one should have no problem obtaining some sort of success in this country. I don't know maybe your job is not fulfilling your expectations; it can be that bad… Can it?

> Not so. I think people expect way too much for an hour long
> show, frankly.

> Um...

> The thing is, if you want a decent view, then you have to pay
> the price of being locked in the middle of a rowdy crowd. I was
> less than 5 feet from the guard rail, yet didn't even see the
> banana thing in boy racer. Why? Because I was being swallowed by
> it. Sure, I could have fought my way backwards to a less
> harrowing spot, but what is the point of flying across 2 time
> zones, standing in line for a cancelled show, standing in the
> broiling sun all day long to see the one remaining show if all
> you're going to do is stand in a place where the band looks like
> piss ants on the sidewalk?

Well if you where have been just about 5 to 10 feet back on the left side of the stage you would have been just fine. AND if you still could not see I would have been glad to carry you on my shoulders, I played high school football. Geez, now I sound like the other guy... And no-no, I did not play high school football….

Why wait there the whole day just to be 5 to 10 feet closer? You missed an exquisite performance by the Super Furries and all…

What exactly are piss ants?!?

> What you want and what you get are not the same things.

> Yes, I do this all the time. If I spent any amount of time
> waiting for anyone to join me, I would be retired and stuck on a
> packaged tour bus with a bunch of little old ladies complaining
> about how loud everything is.

> But it is good to escape. I think it's my one time that I can
> plan something completely nuts, change my itinerary on a
> moment's whim and not have to worry about anyone else. And when
> I have to worry about other people, it's not much of a vacation.
> I feel like all year long I'm killing things that I like to do
> just so I can accomodate others by sitting through THEIR choice
> in movies and THEIR restaurants and THEIR parties just so I can
> hang out with them when they are bored and can't find anyone
> else to hang out with, and on top of that, I'm an incredibly
> independent person and don't really like answering to anyone
> about where I've been.

> It does get a bit boring sometimes, but it has it's own reward.

Being independent is overrated, don't you think? I would much rather submerse my ego than to have to hang out with myself. It's all about compromises and learning to enjoy the company of other even if it means doing certain things in the manner that you are accustomed to. If you think about it what's to gain from doing everything exactly as you like? All you do is exasperate yourself and others trying to have things done your way. The way you perceive things is not always the best; there always something new to learn or something new to experience.

> I'm short. I'm not very big boned. I'm not a very loud or brazen
> person. I look at least 5+ years younger than what I am. The
> world is not the same place for me as it is for you.

> I don't know. From everything i had read about California early
> on, there have been idiots there for a long time. That riot
> erupted after the LA show back in '92 did it not? Who caused
> that?

In a way, Morrissey instigated that riot by telling people to come a little closer. Yet, that whole scenario did not appear to be as bad as what has been described this around at the Palladium. Also, in Pauley Pavilion there were 11,000 plus people while the palladium it was 4,000 at most. I wasn't there for neither Pauley Pavilion nor the Palladium, but I can just imagine how much worst it was at the Palladium by reading all those comments here and by talking to the people that attended the concerts.

 

[rob]

Re: Rob

Well, thanks for backing up my argument. I know it is not a very popular one. Also, I know few, other than a few friends and my sister, that perfectly understand this issue and know exactly were we are coming from.

I totally understand you frustration. It's not like we can make them understand that they are acting like idiots because if you were as to utter a word we would have a broken nose or something. Even if you can take them on, I'm afraid they might gang up on your or something. You can't rationalize with these people. Perhaps, all we can do hope that is just a phase and that they will be go away in the near future.

As for Morrissey's antics regarding Mexico, it will all become clear in the near future.

"We is Morrissey"

--Morrissey, Morrissey say Zacatecas---

Morrissey's reply "Sack of what?!?"

 

[rob]

Re: MIRA PAISANO, rOB

Don't mind me… Just being obnoxious, really.

Yeah-your e-mail is pretty cool..

 

[rob]

pants!

No-That wasn't my intent at all. Take as you will, though. It matters not.




pants, I tell you

 

[rob]

Re:What the hell did u just say ROB?

You know---

On top- it says "posted by Becca," right.

Now above this text box it says "Post a Response," right.

So, I'm posting response to you.

Do you like it?




pants, I tell you

 

[suzanne]

Re: You are terribly misinformed

> You have a rebuttal for everything don't you?!?

it's my job.

> O.K.--I'll play your game. Not all Mexicans of Indian (Well,
> first of, they should not be technically called
> "Indian" because Indian is a term used for people from
> the country of India. It really should be Native Mexicans)
> descent are brown. I know quite a few Native Mexicans that have
> a white complexion. So your explanation doesn't fit either… So
> there!

that wasn't my point, but please continue...

> Yeah-But that doesn't mean that I can't complain about those
> people.

be like me: I complain about everyone equally, and therefore do not discriminate.

> Don't you have a decent job? Or is that you're set on becoming a
> successful singer/performer?

ha ha ha ha ha ha!

First off, in Austin, you can't make a living as a musician. Many of them allow pharmaceutical companies to experiment on them just to get a bit of money. Singer/songwriters have to play for FREE or for little money when starting out, and it's not steady work. Since I do not have a CD for release or personally know many of the club owners (much less anyone in any position that has any appreciation for what I do...heh, I've got stories) then the road is much more difficult.

I play live at the places I do for practice and send my tapes to anyone outside of town who might listen.

My real job sucks ass all around.

> I believe that if chose your field carefully and study hard in
> college one should have no problem obtaining some sort of
> success in this country. I don't know maybe your job is not
> fulfilling your expectations; it can be that bad… Can it?

Oh yes, very.

Since I suck at math, this eliminates a good majority of fields I can do.

> Well if you where have been just about 5 to 10 feet back on the
> left side of the stage you would have been just fine. AND if you
> still could not see I would have been glad to carry you on my
> shoulders, I played high school football. Geez, now I sound like
> the other guy... And no-no, I did not play high school
> football….

hmmmm.

oh well.

what are we debating this for? the aunt of the cousin of the mover of Morrissey's capodimonte collection says he;'s coming to dallas. aren't you happy?!?!?

> Why wait there the whole day just to be 5 to 10 feet closer? You
> missed an exquisite performance by the Super Furries and all…

I'm adding in barrier distance.

You don't understand.

I was closer than that at the beginning of the set.

> What exactly are piss ants?!?

little bitty black ants

> Being independent is overrated, don't you think? I would much
> rather submerse my ego than to have to hang out with myself.
> It's all about compromises and learning to enjoy the company of
> other even if it means doing certain things in the manner that
> you are accustomed to. If you think about it what's to gain from
> doing everything exactly as you like? All you do is exasperate
> yourself and others trying to have things done your way. The way
> you perceive things is not always the best; there always
> something new to learn or something new to experience.

I almost agree with you BUT:

1. Nobody I hang out with is a Morrissey fan.
2. Most people I know are still in school and have classes and tests to study for. Everyone else is a bunch of home bodies.
3. After missing out on a couple of local concerts I really wanted to go to because I could not find anyone who wanted to go, I vowed to do as I damn well please and let them languish.
4. It;s not my fault that my tastes don't match everyone else's on the street
5. After trying to arrange ONE trip with a friend and him ultimately welshing, I don't really feel like wasting any more time on it. A trip is something that needs a bit of planning, and is NOT something you haphazardly throw together or talk big about yet do no action on.
6. There are some things that just need to be done alone. You can't take people with you for various reasons.

> In a way, Morrissey instigated that riot by telling people to
> come a little closer. Yet, that whole scenario did not appear to
> be as bad as what has been described this around at the
> Palladium. Also, in Pauley Pavilion there were 11,000 plus
> people while the palladium it was 4,000 at most. I wasn't there
> for neither Pauley Pavilion nor the Palladium, but I can just
> imagine how much worst it was at the Palladium by reading all
> those comments here and by talking to the people that attended
> the concerts.

Yeah, but all the comments were prefaced by "those damn mexicans" which frankly, if you are a bit of a racist, you aren't going to be happy with what they were doing before anything happened to begin with.

 

[fac2312]

chicano fans in the smiths days

> More than anything I just found it completely wierd... He never
> had a single hispanic fan in the Smiths days

my, my. if i had a penny for every chicano smiths fan from back in the day that i know/knew, i'd be pretty f**kin rich! hell, one of my friends collected vinyls from back in the day and has every smiths vinyl, even the mispressings - HE'S CHICANO. maybe you're from too secluded and narrow of a place to make any real judgement.

and i don't see any oddity that the music of morrissey or the smiths appeals to groups outside the whites. why should it?

by the way, i never heard the word 'greaser' used as a racial category. 'greaseball' yeah, but not 'greaser'. if anything, i've heard and used the word 'greaser' to refer to rockabilly kids. in anycase, what's wrong about being a greaser? just as long as you're into the music and not necessarily the scene.