Bonfire of Teenagers or Without Music The World Dies

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

If you’re saying that they’re all great, you are saying that everything Moz does is great. And you have every right to believe that. But I don’t agree with you.

nope. Being open to and recognizing what’s great about a song that one may have previously disliked, I think is a pretty great thing, being open in order to experience what’s great about a song, that on previous listens may not come off as a great song. If one is comparing, and they have every right to, then there is the high probability of not experiencing what is great about a song. It’s possible to find great things about a song, even if they can at the same time recognize that’s it not his best song. Which means, no I don’t think everything Morrissey does is great.

But now you’re talking about personal experience. And there’s no debating that. A song can be great for one person, but awful for another. That’s subjectivity and personal experience.

Of course. I’ve only been talking about personal experience, how can being open to and finding pleasure through the experience of listening to music not be a personal experience? And surely, you must see that someone that’s open to the music would experience it differently than someone that is closed to it. I know, because I use to be close minded about certain artists, then later, realizing my mistake, and now some of those albums are my all time favorites.

I don’t think there’s a universal, factual and indisputable truth that all Morrissey songs are undeniably great for everyone and that those who fail to experience this are judgmental and closed-minded.

Good, because neither do I.

But as I said above … If one is comparing, and they have every right to, then there is the high probability of not experiencing what is great about a song. It’s possible to find great things about a song, even if they can at the same time recognize that’s it not his best song. Which means, no I don’t think everything Morrissey does is great.

 

[Ryan]

I think a song like Who Will Protect Us From The Police? is extra hated because we already had Ganglord, which echoed largely the same sentiments, and was done live to death.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

nope. Being open to and recognizing what’s great about a song that one may have previously disliked, I think is a pretty great thing, being open in order to experience what’s great about a song, that on previous listens may not come off as a great song. If one is comparing, and they have every right to, then there is the high probability of not experiencing what is great about a song. It’s possible to find great things about a song, even if they can at the same time recognize that’s it not his best song. Which means, no I don’t think everything Morrissey does is great.


Of course. I’ve only been talking about personal experience, how can being open to and finding pleasure through the experience of listening to music not be a personal experience? And surely, you must see that someone that’s open to the music would experience it differently than someone that is closed to it. I know, because I use to be close minded about certain artists, then later, realizing my mistake, and now some of those albums are my all time favorites.


Good, because neither do I.

But as I said above … If one is comparing, and they have every right to, then there is the high probability of not experiencing what is great about a song. It’s possible to find great things about a song, even if they can at the same time recognize that’s it not his best song. Which means, no I don’t think everything Morrissey does is great.

But you are saying that all of his songs have a potential greatness. And if you’re talking mere subjectivity, I agree.

I just don’t buy the whole closed/open dichotomy. Certain stuff you like, certain stuff you don’t like. Saying someone is closed to certain music almost implies that the person is, literally or metaphorically, covering his ears, refusing to listen. You’re almost denying the existence of taste and personal preferences.

Comparison is impossible to avoid.

 

[Redacted]

I think someone said this the other day and I think it's true - if you have not watched Morrissey's career progression (and subsequent decline in quality) in real time, you really can't judge his work.
For the albums, I pick neither.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I think someone said this the other day and I think it's true - if you have not watched Morrissey's career progression (and subsequent decline in quality) in real time, you really can't judge his work.
For the albums, I pick neither.

So those that haven’t been around since 1983 should just shut up? Let me quote the great Gordy Boy and say: absolute mince!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

But you are saying that all of his songs have a potential greatness. And if you’re talking mere subjectivity, I agree.

Yes, it’s always in the ear of the beholder.

I just don’t buy the whole closed/open dichotomy. Certain stuff you like, certain stuff you don’t like. Saying someone is closed to certain music almost implies that the person is, literally or metaphorically, covering his ears, refusing to listen. You’re almost denying the existence of taste and personal preferences.

From experience, I’ve refused to listen to certain artists in the past, I was young and wrong. So yes, I do believe it’s possible to be close-minded. But this is not only with music, but how open we are in relation to reality and the world itself, what we let in, what we don’t, and how our perception shapes it, and in return we are shaped by it. To put it simply, being positive or not, is a choice that we can make.

Comparison is impossible to avoid.

Agree. I believe it’s a part of our natural survival instincts. But if one practices awareness, then one can eventually overcome this in order to experience more of what life has to offer. There is a discipline to it.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Yes, it’s always in the ear of the beholder.

From experience, I’ve refused to listen to certain artists in the past, I was young and wrong. So yes, I do believe it’s possible to be close-minded. But this is not only with music, but how open we are in relation to reality and the world itself, what we let in, what we don’t, and how our perception shapes it, and in return we are shaped by it. To put it simply, being positive or not, is a choice that we can make.


Agree. I believe it’s a part of our natural survival instincts. But if one practices awareness, then one can eventually overcome this in order to experience more of what life has to offer. There is a discipline to it.

Me too. I used to think Phil Collins was the worst, but as I’ve gotten older I’ve learned to appreciate several of his biggest hits (please don’t laugh). And of course it’s possible to be closed minded. But I don’t think it’s the universal go-to answer as to why people dislike, for example, a song.

I may not agree with everything that you’re saying, but I admire and respect your approach. I’ve enjoyed this conversation.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Me too. I used to think Phil Collins was the worst, but as I’ve gotten older I’ve learned to appreciate several of his biggest hits (please don’t laugh).

His early hits aren’t bad. This one’s a fave of mine, always thought it was quite punk. I mean, for Phil Collins that is ….



and of course, In The Air Tonight is a classic.

And of course it’s possible to be closed minded. But I don’t think it’s the universal go-to answer as to why people dislike, for example, a song.

Agree. I’m sure there are other reasons.

I may not agree with everything that you’re saying, but I admire and respect your approach. I’ve enjoyed this conversation.

Yeah, but it probably bored everyone else silly. Lol.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

His early hits aren’t bad. This one’s a fave of mine, always thought it was quite punk. I mean, for Phil Collins that is ….



and of course, In The Air Tonight is a classic.



Agree. I’m sure there are other reasons.


Yeah, but it probably bored everyone else silly. Lol.

Yes! Great song! It has much of the same desolate atmosphere as ItAT.

Haha, probably. But maybe they’ve learned something as well?

 

[Juan Dulces]

You've got terrific Phil Collins vox in early Genesis music too, like 'One for the Vine' and 'Home by the Sea'. And even if it's for a younger crowd, his soundtrack for Disney's Tarzan was outstanding.

Genesis played a famous 1980 concert in Montreal where they played an outstanding rendition of 'One for the Vine'. It also really shows off the band's two drummers (Phil C. and Chester Thompson) playing in unison.

 

[Mozzer1980]

You've got terrific Phil Collins vox in early Genesis music too, like 'One for the Vine' and 'Home by the Sea'. And even if it's for a younger crowd, his soundtrack for Disney's Tarzan was outstanding.

Genesis played a famous 1980 concert in Montreal where they played an outstanding rendition of 'One for the Vine'. It also really shows off the band's two drummers (Phil C. and Chester Thompson) playing in unison.

I think Phil was perfect vocally until We can's dance. One of the most important artists in the history of music. A bit overly underrated due to his too pop sound.
His solo performance with piano at Live Aid showed what an excellent vocalist he was. Unfortunately, his private life is a series of failures and addictions.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

I guess I’ll go with Bonfire too, because Oblivion, Saint, and Telephone have had more time to grow on me, than the other album. Ack, you made me choose. It feels like turning against one of my children.

What awful children.

 

[Jack Wild]

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I shall have both or someone will get spanked with a wet plimsole.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I shall have both or someone will get spanked with a wet plimsole.

I shall have both and get spanked with a wet plimsole.

 

[Ryan]

BOT is the side of the beach
That the tide doesn’t reach
Jesse is a leech
Whose demeanour we shouldn’t teach
To those who preach
That his speech
Is sweet like a peach



…I’m getting delirious from all the waiting.