Do you consider Morrissey to be the greatest lyricist of all time?

[Gentler Words]

I would have to say that sums up my feelings too.While I admire other lyricists currently, who knows if their body of work will hold up as well as Moz's has over the past 30 years.

That's a good point. While he may not be currently, when his career is over, he may still have the better overall body of work than his current contemporaries.

As for all time, he's got tough competition from Dylan and Cohen (as others have mentioned), and I would add Tom Waits to the list. That man can tell a story and turn a phrase as good as anyone. But, most great lyricists lack the voice of Morrissey and that's what sets him apart (when his band and producer match his talent, which is less and less).

 

[SparkleBoy]

Explosive kegs between my legs.

 

[VivaLove]

Does that make you cringe? Does it creep into your mind at nights? Whats the definition of a good/brilliant line, as opposed to a dull and boring one?

 

[bored]

I do.

Take the full body of work of anyone else in music of any genre and I cannot think of anyone better.

I do not think he is perfect but he sits alone at the top in my eyes.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I think he is the greatest lyricist of all time. He's tuned into something constantly the others dabble with here and there.

 

[Worm]

Whats the definition of a good/brilliant line, as opposed to a dull and boring one?

Oh, all right.



...et al.

 

[VivaLove]

I don't get it, and I don't think I'm supposed to. They both wrote great songs. So whatever is in your mind, you're alright buddy. Mate. 'nstuff.

 

[Worm]

I don't get it, and I don't think I'm supposed to. They both wrote great songs. So whatever is in your mind, you're alright buddy. Mate. 'nstuff.

The difference between a good/brilliant line and a dull one is frequently in the hands of his musical partner, is the gist of it.

 

[VivaLove]

I always thought that music and lyrics are two separate things. Sometimes they go hand in hand, enforce each other (like in Dear God Please Help Me), sometimes they contradict each other (like in I Don't Mind If You Forget Me).

 

[Worm]

I always thought that music and lyrics are two separate things.

The two are blurred. That's not my opinion, it's his.

Here is one quote:

"And what's always been most important to me are the vocal melodies, even more so than the lyrical content. That's really the key to the songs surviving." Morrissey (Interview, 1997)

The vocal melodies can't be separated from the lyrics, and if that's true then the vocals (melodies/lyrics) can't be separated from the music. So while it's possible to evaluate his songs as strings of words on a piece of paper, that's far from the complete picture. As an easy example, think about the middle of "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side", when he breaks off and starts humming or half-yodeling or whatever it is he's doing. Those aren't words. They don't show up on the lyric sheet. But without them the song loses something important; by the same token, the noise he's making would be unlistenable without the music behind it.

 

[Qvist]

He is number one. Cohen is great of course. Matt Johnson. Mark E Smith. David Tibet. Ian Curtis. Howard Devoto. Paddy mcaloon. Randy Newman. And Jarvis.

 

[Worm]

Ian Curtis

I know I'm quibbling here but...

I am second to nobody in these forums in my love of Joy Division, but Ian Curtis on paper was a shit lyricist. Written out, half of his lyrics do not even make sense let alone strike a poetic chord. He's an absolutely perfect example-- as is Bernard Sumner-- of how lyrics are transformed by the music in which they're embedded. For me, Curtis also would be at or near the top of my favorites, but always, always in the context of the music he and his bandmates made.

To touch on an example as I did above, in my post to VivaLove, think of a song like "I Remember Nothing", when he repeats "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee were straaaaaaaaaaaaaaangers..." I can't call that a particularly good lyric, but those words, and his delivery, backed by the band, together make for an unforgettably bone-chilling song. I just don't know how one could evaluate Curtis (or Morrissey) any other way.

 

[leedoggpimp]

1. frank sinatra
2. elvis presley
3. john lennon
4. jim morrisson
5. ian curtis
6. stephen patrick morrissey

 

[Anaesthesine]

I do believe that John Lennon once said of Bob Dylan "it's not what he says, it's the way that he says it." Morrissey writes it and says it better than anyone else: the voice and the melody matter.

Cole Porter is a very close second as far as pop lyrics and melodies go. Of course Porter mainly wrote for other people: if he'd had a voice to match his words, he'd probably be unbeatable.

I think Connor Oberst deserves a mention here: he's a phenomenal lyricist. Most people can't stand his voice, but I think he sings as he writes, with a kind of wry, soulful, aggressive fragility that perfectly conveys his words.

The great Antony Hegarty is a poet of the highest order: his unearthly voice turns his deceptively simple lyrics into transcendent, universal hymns.

 

[Amy]

As an easy example, think about the middle of "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side", when he breaks off and starts humming or half-yodeling or whatever it is he's doing. Those aren't words. They don't show up on the lyric sheet. But without them the song loses something important; by the same token, the noise he's making would be unlistenable without the music behind it.

Such a wonderful moment - Moz surrendering himself completely to the melody, thinking, "Sweet Christ, this is sublime - go Johnny go!"

 

[Anonymous]

That's a good point. While he may not be currently, when his career is over, he may still have the better overall body of work than his current contemporaries.

As for all time, he's got tough competition from Dylan and Cohen (as others have mentioned), and I would add Tom Waits to the list. That man can tell a story and turn a phrase as good as anyone. But, most great lyricists lack the voice of Morrissey and that's what sets him apart (when his band and producer match his talent, which is less and less).

When will Morrisseys career be over?

 

[wontshareyou]

1. frank sinatra
2. elvis presley
3. john lennon
4. jim morrisson
5. ian curtis
6. stephen patrick morrissey

You do know that Frank Sinatra never wrote a single word he sang right? Elvis apparently only co-wrote "Love Me Tender" out of every song he's ever laid to record. Those two would be automatically cancelled out.

In my opinion, the answer is an obvious YES. Find me one lyricist who has been as consistently solid and has brought out such an extreme reaction from fans because of those very lyrics throughout their entire musical career.

I'll save you the trouble.... You can't.

 

[wontshareyou]

Mark E Smith is probably the only other contender in this thread that I could even consider a great lyricist. (Davey Havok, Connor Oberst, and the guy from the Gaslight Anthem. Are you joking?)

People say Cohen or Dylan but neither have been consistently good.

I'm frankly shocked that no one has said Lou Reed.

 

[SparkleBoy]

Did Sinatra write his own stuff? And even though I can't stand his voice, Bob Dylan has to be on there. Also, most Doors lyrics are credited to everyone - not just Morrison (and Krieger wrote most of the big hits).

1. frank sinatra
2. elvis presley
3. john lennon
4. jim morrisson
5. ian curtis
6. stephen patrick morrissey

 

[Qvist]

I know I'm quibbling here but...

I am second to nobody in these forums in my love of Joy Division, but Ian Curtis on paper was a shit lyricist. Written out, half of his lyrics do not even make sense let alone strike a poetic chord. He's an absolutely perfect example-- as is Bernard Sumner-- of how lyrics are transformed by the music in which they're embedded. For me, Curtis also would be at or near the top of my favorites, but always, always in the context of the music he and his bandmates made.

To touch on an example as I did above, in my post to VivaLove, think of a song like "I Remember Nothing", when he repeats "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee were straaaaaaaaaaaaaaangers..." I can't call that a particularly good lyric, but those words, and his delivery, backed by the band, together make for an unforgettably bone-chilling song. I just don't know how one could evaluate Curtis (or Morrissey) any other way.

That is an excellent point. Same with "something must break".