Was Johnny wrong to leave The Smiths?

[g23]

In case of Johnny and Morrissey one was as important as the other. A great and special frontman is important and rare. At least Johnny knew as much, that's why he deliberately searched for this special person. Moz certainly filled that role, difficulties aside.

I never said Morrissey didn't. Just that he was a complete and utter pain in the ass. That's why his output has slipped. His band doesn't care, they are always ready to bow to his whims because he's a paycheck and they don't have anybody knocking down their door to have them play with them. So we get a disjointed collection of odds n sods, grumpy grandpa throws some politics and sexual frustration/liberation on it, and they call it an album.

 

[Anonymous]

They'd have needed to be more experimental in the future to save Johnny's marbles and that would never have happened so he was right to go.

One thing that's a shame is that we'll never get to find out what would have happenned if Morrissey had been more musically adventurous at the time. Johnny was clearly getting excited by the new electronic/dance music stuff that was starting to emerge, and presumably within a couple of years of 'Strangeways' he'd want to put his guitar down and do a largely electronic/synth based Smiths album. I can't even imagine what that would sound like with Morrissey singing - maybe it would have been crap, and not worked at all- but it would have been intruiging to find out! I know there's a big cheesy synth at the beginning, but I'd love to hear what Morrissey would have done with this music:

 

[Anonymous]

I wish they had toured "Strangeways". Would've been great to hear how they did those songs live.

What sucks, is that there is an audio interview CD out there, featuring an interview with Johnny recorded in the USA after they'd finished recording 'Strangeways' - and he is REALLY entheusiastic about the band going out to tour for it. He even goes so far as to say they had decided on their opening song for the setlist - they were going to kick off with 'Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before'. Johnny seems 100% positive regarding the Smiths at this very, very late point - but then presumably only a few days later Morrissey would put that fake news story out in the press that Johnny had left the band, he saw it, said 'f*** it' and left for real. But a tour for 'Strangeways' was definately in the planning.

Anyway - here's the interview CD - it's interesting listening
https://www.discogs.com/The-Smiths-The-Interview/release/1005985

 

[ACTON]

I think they ended at the right time too.

I agree. I loved Strangeways but it's possibly my least favourite Smiths album. If they had done more albums I think the next 2 or 3 would have been experimental and full of songs like 'Death at one's elbow', and after that they might have reverted to form. But, based on Johnny's output with other bands, I think he peaked with The Smiths. He had some cracking tunes (e.g. Slow Emotion Replay) but pales in comparison to Moz solo. However, there is no telling what magic would have resulted in continued collaboration between Marr and Moz. In their case 1+1=3, so it's not fully accurate to look at Marr's post Smiths output and say 'its crap and would have ruined The Smiths' because Moz could have worked wonders with it. That's why I think it's unfair to only refer to Moz as a lyricist or singer, because his vocal melodies define the song, and often times elevate a standard song to a thing of beauty. That said, most of the songs Marr gave him were absolute genius.

 

[ACTON]

No. He wasn't wrong. He was asked to perform duties that he never signed up for, up to and including dealing with Morrissey's histrionics.
It's shocking that he hung in there long enough to make Strangeways. As for the "More important than Morrissey" bullshit, well. I have two words to sum up the importance of a great guitarist in terms of quality and public interest.

Jesse Tobias.

Yep. It's easy for us at the sidelines to judge. I'd say Moz was very hard to work with, missing videos, doing cover versions of stupid songs by other people, jealous over Joe Moss, never accepting a manager, and God knows what else. Johnny probably had no choice: leave or lose his sanity, cos Moz wasn't gonna change.

Moz should have stuck with Stephen Street after the success of Suedehead and Viva Hate, instead of killing that relationship. I like what Moz did with Your Arsenal and later albums, but there was more gold to mine with Street. I think Moz only likes working with people who are 100% under his thumb. It's a shame because you should always try to surround yourself with smarter and funnier people, otherwise you stagnate. If Moz is truly interested in progressing his art then he should be quite happy to be told to "**** off" now and again by talented musicians. That's what he needs to hear sometimes.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Another point when people downtread on Johnny and co, what makes any band great aside of the frontman and writing is the chemistry between the musicians. Musically they still don't sound like anyone else, despite a thousand imitations. How many bands can you say that about?

 

[Anonymous]

You don't need to tell someone to f##k off to get them to see a different point of view or to talk sense. if some of the people who he pushed away would have just led by example they may still be around.

 

[g23]

It's a shame because you should always try to surround yourself with smarter and funnier people, otherwise you stagnate. If Moz is truly interested in progressing his art then he should be quite happy to be told to "**** off" now and again by talented musicians. That's what he needs to hear sometimes.

My best friends in life who have been there for decades as opposed to years are able to tell me without hesitation when my head is up my ass. And I respect them enough to consider, and usually accept it. I do the same for them when they need it. Honesty is a valuable thing in those closest to you.

 

[Anonymous]

One thing that's a shame is that we'll never get to find out what would have happenned if Morrissey had been more musically adventurous at the time. Johnny was clearly getting excited by the new electronic/dance music stuff that was starting to emerge, and presumably within a couple of years of 'Strangeways' he'd want to put his guitar down and do a largely electronic/synth based Smiths album. I can't even imagine what that would sound like with Morrissey singing - maybe it would have been crap, and not worked at all- but it would have been intruiging to find out! I know there's a big cheesy synth at the beginning, but I'd love to hear what Morrissey would have done with this music:

I’d be interested in seeing marr do something electronic based in a solo setting. It’s to hard with electronic the band because so much of it sounds like Bernard at times. I still say an interesting smiths connected reunion would be seeing what he and Andy could come up with. I really liked the songs Andy did with morrissey and after his work in dark I could see him and marr doing an electro sounding musical project. Only in dreams I guess

 

[billybu69]

A little holiday would have been just the thing, 2 years hiatus, and we'd have had a different senario, the would have come back with the help of descent management and been a stadium act, if U2 can do it...

 

[Uncleskinny]

Whether it was right or wrong is entirely subjective. He saw the way things way after Joyce became Morrissey's favourite person, doing Morrissey's bidding.

 

[SuedeMoz]

Another point when people downtread on Johnny and co, what makes any band great aside of the frontman and writing is the chemistry between the musicians. Musically they still don't sound like anyone else, despite a thousand imitations. How many bands can you say that about?

Very true. I feel like Johnny does not get enough credit for being the absolute right key needed to unlock Morrissey's talent.

 

[Anonymous]

Very true. I feel like Johnny does not get enough credit for being the absolute right key needed to unlock Morrissey's talent.

Not enough credit? Nowadays Johnny get's nothing but credit, 24/7. The common narrative today often reads as if Morrissey wasn't even there during the Smiths.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Not enough credit? Nowadays Johnny get's nothing but credit, 24/7. The common narrative today often reads as if Morrissey wasn't even there during the Smiths.

1) Language. Get it right.

2) Don't be an idiot apologist all your life.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

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Was Johnny wrong to leave The Smiths?

No, BECAUSE if he didn't leave/break up the Smiths then we wouldn't have the AMAZING album.... LOW IN HIGH SCHOOL !

BEST ALBUM OF 2017, AND SO FAR... 2018 !





' funny how the war goes on, without our John, without our John '








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[mcrickson]

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Must you?

 

[g23]

Not enough credit? Nowadays Johnny get's nothing but credit, 24/7. The common narrative today often reads as if Morrissey wasn't even there during the Smiths.

He deserves a lot of credit. His style of playing was insane. Compare Girl Afraid (just a random example) with anything in the solo works. You can't because there is no comparison. Sure, there were moments of great beauty in the solo years, but there's no denying that an intricacy of sound and composition was markedly absent from Morrissey's music from 1988 onward.

 

[g23]

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' funny how the war goes on, without our John, without our John '








<>

I haven't seen such a clusterf*** of a "war" since Vietnam.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Must you?

BECAUSE I MUST

 

[Anonymous]

He deserves a lot of credit. His style of playing was insane. Compare Girl Afraid (just a random example) with anything in the solo works. You can't because there is no comparison. Sure, there were moments of great beauty in the solo years, but there's no denying that an intricacy of sound and composition was markedly absent from Morrissey's music from 1988 onward.

I would like to add that there isn't a lot that sounds like the Smiths in Johnny's subsequent work because he was trying NOT to sound like the Smiths. There's tons of beautiful, creative guitarwork in all of his bands. "The Messenger", "Cheat on Me" - Cribs, the soaring passage in "Fire It Up" by Modest Mouse, "Nothing but Flowers" by Talking Heads and the recent atmospheric "The Priest", not to mention his work with Hans Zimmer. All amazing, gorgeous stuff. I can't believe people are denigrating his work after the Smiths, his output has been breathtaking.