Joan Rivers statement on TTY

Also, since I'm sure Joan's past love of fur will come up in about 10 seconds, this piece Dan Matthews from PETA wrote for HuffPo is worth sharing...

Joan Rivers' Animal Evolution:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-mathews/joan-rivers-animal-evolut_b_5768672.html

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Joan Rivers is noisy.
Joan Rivers is mouthy.
Joan Rivers is a Jew.

Joan Rivers is a noisy, mouthy Jew.

Why is this anti-semetic?

C'mon Jehne. Use what critical thinking skills you do have to explain how this sentence is anti-semetic. I know you've got it in you. You go girl! Tap into your 4th Grade Language SKills education to explain why a COMPOUND SENTENCE is ANTI-SEMETIC. USE YOUR WITS! This is the hydrant. This is the battle. The spotlight is on YOU, it's what you've always dreamed of. Dazzle us.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

To prove I am not the monster you say I am, I've compiled a list of smart-sounding words you can use to debate whether the sentence "Joan Rivers is a noisy, mouthy Jew." is anti-semetic.

equivocate
dubious
faux pas
finagle
idiosyncratic
indelicate
peevish
Svengali
untenable

Links to articles pinpointing nomenclature in rhetoric and semiotic theory are appreciated too. kthx.

 

[Hadrian]

C'mon Jehne. Use what critical thinking skills you do have to explain how this sentence is anti-semetic. I know you've got it in you. You go girl! Tap into your 4th Grade Language SKills education to explain why a COMPOUND SENTENCE is ANTI-SEMETIC. USE YOUR WITS! This is the hydrant. This is the battle. The spotlight is on YOU, it's what you've always dreamed of. Dazzle us.

There is no sense to wait for her tiresome and empty disquisitions. She is living proof of brainwashing, now I know it, especially after having read this:

I try to stop anti-Semitic comments and attitudes in their tracks and to educate people whenever possible. I do the same thing when it comes to hate directed at gays and lesbians.

By the way, I would never imagine that my absolutely innocent post could create such a storm.

 

[O.B.]

C'mon Jehne. Use what critical thinking skills you do have to explain how this sentence is anti-semetic. I know you've got it in you. You go girl! Tap into your 4th Grade Language SKills education to explain why a COMPOUND SENTENCE is ANTI-SEMETIC. USE YOUR WITS! This is the hydrant. This is the battle. The spotlight is on YOU, it's what you've always dreamed of. Dazzle us.

Hello. The point is that the fact that she is a Jew is completely irrelevant. It has nothing to do with anything. Pointing it out in this context is unnecessary and can be considered slightly anti-Semitic.

 

[keene]

I just want to say that I have been in a funk since George Carlin died.

He was Irish Catholic........wanna fight?

And when Kirk Douglas dies.... I do hope somebody turns out the lights......so I can go to sleep and have some private life.....

 

[realitybites]

This noisy, mouthy Jew needs to STFU.

That is offensive. As are these 'like father like daughter posts.' And there are many more. Just do an advanced search of CG's name with the word 'Jew.'

So there's another lady in my community who lives down the creek from my dad who is very liberal and works as a dean at a college and is at Taco Tuesday everynight and organizes Democrat Parties and is very smart. So my dad, also liberal but with conservative-type leanings always gets her all riled up because he's not very "PC." So he's working on restoring his motorhome which is 60's era and super cool actually, he;s redoing all the wood paneling inside, and he was telling her about it and referred to the type of nail he was finding bothersome extracting from the siding as "jew nails." She got all bent out of shape and he says "What? Jews are tight with their money, I see nothing wrong with that. THe nails are tight in the paneling, I don't have a nail named after my family heritage, I think it's an honor!" She didn't see it that way. Anyway, kinda the funny story of the evening. Other than the hippy named Larry who was burning a sage smudge and telling me with stoney eyes that it's the perfect balance between good and evil. I'm like whatever Larry, let's just bring it over to where we're standing because the trashcans smell like ass. Oh and the band was playing brown-eyed girl at the community concert at the park and a man named Gabriel hugged me and told me to tell my dad thank you for letting him park in his driveway. I'll stop talking now before I sound too 2828ish.

Source

Poor Joan Rivers is in the ER as we speak suffering from cardiac arrest, perhaps karma's tiny punch to the heart. SHe should've stood up to promoting the Kardasians who are self-obsessed nothings and PROMOTE self-obsession. Alas E!'s paycheck was too sweet to pass up.

If you thought the Jews were running Hollywood, the torch has been passed. American Idol hosts are, Ryan Seacrest has single-handedly done more damage to the medium of television than any corporate commercial entity, he's propogated and farmed GMO FAKE REAL production. I hate it.

*goes to google if Seacrest is jewish. lol*

Source

 

[realitybites]

hello. The point is that the fact that she is a jew is completely irrelevant. It has nothing to do with anything. Pointing it out in this context is unnecessary and can be considered slightly anti-semitic.

Exactly!

 

[realitybites]

Hiya babs!

LOL! No, "BrummieBoy" isn't "Mozambiguous", though I think they went to the same school. And "BB" isn't "Keene" either, though he is often in Hotlanta. Is that where Keen's from? *confused*. Anyway, all I know is that this "Call Centre" is closing down here in The Shire. There's a load of packing crates marked "Billund" and loads of life-size LEGO statues of Moz, Bowie, Lou Reed. Alice Cooper. It's like Madam Toussauds but made of plastic bricks, not wax.

Actually, it's pretty scary.

"BrummieBoy" says I can re-locate to Billund but that "BillundBoy" is now in charge of operations. There was a Danish guy here for a few days over the summer. He said his name was "BillundBoy", but I heard "BrummieBoy" call him Frank all the time. He claims he met "BrummieBoy" on The Golden Mile in Digbeth. They went on a Summer Road Trip to Hay-On-Wye, Bristol & Bath but I only found that out afterwards. "BillundBoy" is some kind of geek/spy/computer nerd-genius disguised as a Middle-Aged Danish School Head-Master. He's obsessed with The Beatles because he lives near Flemsburg/Hamburg & thinks Morrissey's attempt to install Manchester above Liverpool is a satanic heresy. So he's pledged to destroy Morrissey's career. He sings Beatles songs ALL DAY AND NIGHT. And he's absolutely amazing as a singer. He's WAAAAAAY! more important & influential than "BrummieBoy" but I had no idea that there was a Viking Link between Jutland, Ireland and The Shire & that The New Danes control the Music Business. I just don't understand all this and what it has to do with Morrissey....but I think it's something to do with "Scandinavia" and Utøya and Anders Behring Breivik. And "Scandinavia". And Tseng being banned in København. "BillundBoy" says that was an affront to Danish Values of Free Speech & Citizen Democracy, so he's going to mock Morrissey into oblivion, apparently. "BillundBoy" would sing "Scandinavia" now & then but it was what he called the "RolleyesReggaeMix" and it sounded like a bad UB40 track. I've got a head-ache....I've been drinking vodka. LOL!

Anyroads. It's true that "BrummieBoy/BillundBoy" can *appear* anywhere they want on the Interwebz but mainly they pretend to be based in a detached suburban house here in The Shire. But that's not true, it's a call centre for an Imprt-Export Birmingham-Billund rogue LEGO tade. At least that's what I assume it it. When I asked "BrummieBoy" he said "Oh, that's Casper! He's designing the Stage Set. With Lars Von Trier and Bjork.

I tried to learn Danish but it's....insane! I can't even speak proper English. LOL! So, I'm leaving with a really good severance package. And by the way, BB is NOT Skylarker. Or Viva!. Or HSIN. Or anyone, really.. I'm not "BB" either.

So, "BB" has gone. He's not Mozambiguous or anyone else. I'm off too. I just wanted to say goodbye. I've no idea if "BillundBoy" will start posting on this site from Denmark at some stage, but I won't be involved. I really enjoyed being The Secretary and I'm sure my days as a mental patient are long gone. I was really enjoying WPINOYB and so was "BrummieBoy" but then "BillundBoy" flew in after the Robin Williams thing and.....I better not say...


tara a bit
well, actually....farewell.

Sharon McCormick aka The Secretary/Keeper Of Secrets.

Attention all Solo posters: I need a translator on post #239 asap.

 

[keene]

Attention all Solo posters: I need a translator on post #239 asap.

I would have to drop acid to give a good account of BB's ramblings.

This has gotten way too personal....Please God help these lost souls before you turn out the lights.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

That is offensive. As are these 'like father like daughter posts.' And there are many more. Just do an advanced search of CG's name with the word 'Jew.'

Source


Source

You seem to think the word "Jew" is anti-Semetic. You searched my name and the word "Jew" to find evidence?

You still have yet to elaborate TECHNICALLY on how that sentence is anti-Semetic. But PLEASE by all means please marginalize my intellectual faculty using FAMILIAL ASSOCIATION and lecture us on the tenants of anti-semitism.

You're good to have around Jehne. An example to us all of how NOT to think.

 

[Alain Delonissey]

There is nothing anti-semetic about this comment. Joan was a noisy, mouthy Jew. Is he saying all Jews are mouthy and noisy? No, he's saying JOAN was. But you have no interest in talking about Joan, you want to talk about something you've read a few pages about and can pretend to look intelligent, meanwhile derailing all discussion of the topic and insulting the original poster who wasn't anti-semetic?

Then why the "Jew" qualifier? Joan was a lot of things: female, mother, human, New Yorker, entertainer, etc. So why not write "Joan was a noisy, mouthy mother"? Or "Joan was a noisy, mouthy comedian"? Or any number of traits that Joan possessed? Because the author is implicating that being noisy and mouthy are traits of being Jewish. It's antisemitic. If all you wanted to do was convey that Joan was noisy and mouthy, you wouldn't need the further qualification.

The original poster's comment is particularly egregious for it is not only antisemitic, but culturalist as well: "typical American product". Joan Rivers, if anything, was atypical. That's what made her great.

Having said all that, I'm not sure that we should be making a big deal about the original poster's comment. In the grand scheme of ignorance spewed on a daily basis, this is small potatoes.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Then why the "Jew" qualifier? Joan was a lot of things: female, mother, human, New Yorker, entertainer, etc. So why not write "Joan was a noisy, mouthy mother"? Or "Joan was a noisy, mouthy comedian"? Or any number of traits that Joan possessed? Because the author is implicating that being noisy and mouthy are traits of being Jewish. It's antisemitic. If all you wanted to do was convey that Joan was noisy and mouthy, you wouldn't need the further qualification.

The original poster's comment is particularly egregious for it is not only antisemitic, but culturalist as well: "typical American product". Joan Rivers, if anything, was atypical. That's what made her great.

Having said all that, I'm not sure that we should be making a big deal about the original poster's comment. In the grand scheme of ignorance spewed on a daily basis, this is small potatoes.

Joan was a female.
Joan was a mother.
Joan was a human.
Joan was a New Yorker.
Joan was an entertainer.
And JOAN WAS A JEW. Why are you making it a qualifier? Why are you vilifying the word Jew?

 

[Alain Delonissey]

Joan was a female.
Joan was a mother.
Joan was a human.
Joan was a New Yorker.
Joan was an entertainer.
And JOAN WAS A JEW. Why are you making it a qualifier? Why are you vilifying the word Jew?

Don't be daft. There is no problem with the word "Jew". The problem is with linking that word with "noisy" and "mouthy" in a conversational context. The list of sentences that you wrote is NOT what the original poster was doing: they weren't just trying to inform us about all the traits that Joan possessed! They were criticizing her for being a mouthy and noisy Jew.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Don't be daft. There is no problem with the word "Jew". The problem is with linking that word with "noisy" and "mouthy" in a conversational context. The list of sentences that you wrote is NOT what the original poster was doing: they weren't just trying to inform us about all the traits that Joan possessed! They were criticizing her for being a mouthy and noisy Jew.

The problem is you are trying desperately to make the sentence a categorical syllogism and it isn't, it doesn't have the properties. It just sounds anti-semetic but that's good enough for you to deduce what the author was implying and logic doesn't work that way. This is Fox News Logic. This is the heart of the media twist. Today the "anti-semite" was the guy who wrote that post, tomorrow it'll be Obama or Hillary or Morrissey or YOU if it helps to detract from real news like saaaaaaaaaaay, the fact we're aiding and abetting BOTH sides bombing the f*** out of Gaza, but lets not go there. Let's pretend we're hitting the hard issues of anti-semitism because somebody DARE use the word JEW in the same sentence as the words NOISY and MOUTHY. Distract, distract, evade, evade...it's a media epidemic.

 

[Alain Delonissey]

The problem is you are trying desperately to make the sentence a categorical syllogism and it isn't, it doesn't have the properties. It just sounds anti-semetic but that's good enough for you to deduce what the author was implying and logic doesn't work that way. This is Fox News Logic. This is the heart of the media twist. Today the "anti-semite" was the guy who wrote that post, tomorrow it'll be Obama or Hillary or Morrissey or YOU if it helps to detract from real news like saaaaaaaaaaay, the fact we're aiding and abetting BOTH sides bombing the f*** out of Gaza, but lets not go there. Let's pretend we're hitting the hard issues of anti-semitism because somebody DARE use the word JEW in the same sentence as the words NOISY and MOUTHY. Distract, distract, evade, evade...it's a media epidemic.

Wait, are you saying antisemitism plays no role in the Gaza conflict? Or that linguistic acts of antisemitism are detached or detachable from "real" acts of antisemitism (like the Gaza conflict)? I don't understand your media conspiracy theory.

Secondly, there are features of meaning beyond syntactical and semantical features of utterances - there are also pragmatic features like conversational implicatures which account for most of linguistic meaning (you might want to look them up). So, yes, the original poster is implicating a categorical syllogism.

 

[Alain Delonissey]

OK, I'm watching the most ridiculous thing on TV right now, and since I'm currently engaged in a back-and-forth with CG I might as well share my confused reflections with you. I'll try to make it Morrissey related:

I'm watching a program on Showtime called "Suicide Girls". You know, the indie soft-core quasi-feminist movement. Lots of tits and ass and tattoos. I don't know how I feel about this program. The girls pose as strong and tough, but they're basically writhing around on luxurious hotel beds. Factoids about the individual girls, relationships in general and alternative culture pop up on the margins of the screen. There's a rap song playing right now and a group of girls rolling joints around the kitchen table are removing their jeans and squeezing their breasts for the camera. A tip about rolling the perfect joint just popped up! And now a tip about brewing your own absinthe. My initial impression is that sexuality is being represented in the same way as it would on a more conventional porn channel. But I don't now. Anyone out there like the Suicide Girls? But more importantly, do you think that Morrissey likes the Suicide Girls? They are now giving me tips on how to get girls to skinny dip in my pool! If only I had a pool.

 

[Mozza220559]

On page 1 I said:

"I liked Joan, she was a cranky old f***ing Jew with a great sense of humour, everyone was fair game especially herself."

And nobody batted an eyelid, infact 3 people thumbed it. What's the big deal?

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Then why the "Jew" qualifier? Joan was a lot of things: female, mother, human, New Yorker, entertainer, etc. So why not write "Joan was a noisy, mouthy mother"? Or "Joan was a noisy, mouthy comedian"? Or any number of traits that Joan possessed? Because the author is implicating that being noisy and mouthy are traits of being Jewish. It's antisemitic. If all you wanted to do was convey that Joan was noisy and mouthy, you wouldn't need the further qualification.

The original poster's comment is particularly egregious for it is not only antisemitic, but culturalist as well: "typical American product". Joan Rivers, if anything, was atypical. That's what made her great.

Having said all that, I'm not sure that we should be making a big deal about the original poster's comment. In the grand scheme of ignorance spewed on a daily basis, this is small potatoes.

Not that I want to get involved in this debate but her recent comments on Palestine certainly bought her religion to the fore. Making such partisan comments certainly nails your identity to the mast.

Also, this is the same Joan that joked, "The last time a German looked this hot was when they were pushing Jews into the ovens," Let's be straight, she wouldn't have been getting offended because somebody stuck the word "Jew" in as part of a description of her.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

On page 1 I said:

"I liked Joan, she was a cranky old f***ing Jew with a great sense of humour, everyone was fair game especially herself."

And nobody batted an eyelid, infact 3 people thumbed it. What's the big deal?

There isn't one.

 

[Alain Delonissey]

On page 1 I said:

"I liked Joan, she was a cranky old f***ing Jew with a great sense of humour, everyone was fair game especially herself."

And nobody batted an eyelid, infact 3 people thumbed it. What's the big deal?

Yeah, so I think your question is a good one. Clearly, people are not taking offense to the word Jew (since you used it is a way that didn't offend) but to the way that it was being used. So what's the difference between your use and the other poster's use? Let me take a stab:

The expression "cranky old f***ing Jew" is intentional hyperbole (similar to what Joan herself might have said) and so the meaning of the expression depends upon the author (you) and the audience (us) sharing the assumption that the author (you) is speaking hyperbolically in order to highlight a feature of Joan herself (that she was a loud, cranky person with a sharp tongue). You are knowingly exploiting a stereotype about Jews, not to reinforce the stereotype, but to say something about Joan as an individual. In the other case, "noisy, mouthy Jew" comes on the heels of a statement about American cultural products. The stereotype about Jews is not being exploited to say something about Joan, but rather the stereotype is being reinforced as a typical American cultural product. I'm not sure that my analysis is right, but it's a first gloss.

Now, what about the Suicide Girls dammit!?