'Morrissey, we're through' by Cameron Cook - article at Noisey

Morrissey, We're Through - Noisey
by Cameron Cook
Illustratration by Efi Chalikopoulou

"In the wake of Moz's James Baldwin T-shirt debacle, this long-term Smiths fan wonders if it's finally time to break up with his hero."

 

[Anonymous]

I hate you.
Does that sound any better to you?

Being concerned with "what sounds better" is your department.

 

[Anonymous]

What a joke, this guy would be peeing himself and begging for a photo if he ever met him, like most of the people that "hate" Morrissey.

 

[Quando quando quando]

hate-hate or viva hate?

They are both the same thing.
Hate is hate.
But these are just words on a message-board.
Actually I feel unable to hate.
That is,... until now.
No.

I will feel hate when somebody is doing something very bad to me, my family, or my friends. Of which there are, fortunately, not too many.

So I can feel sympathy for anyone having that experience.
Another thing is, hate, depression, frustration, isolation and resentment can all be good motivators in art, music, books, whatever.
So that is how I interpreted "Viva Hate".
Cheers!

 

[Anonymous]

" He's an iconic figure of a struggle that is painfully still very relevant today, and a white man coopting his image for commercial gain is, however you cut it, plainly offensive. Also, the chosen lyric couldn't possibly be more dense. "Unloveable" is a song about the maudlin, teenage self-deprecation Morrissey has embodied since the beginning of his career, and equating Baldwin's tireless civil rights campaigning to being a little bit goth is preposterous to the extreme. Baldwin doesn't wear black on the outside, he is black on the outside, and the color of his skin was the central tenet of his work and identity in an era where black people were being routinely harassed, assaulted, and killed because of their race. The whole ordeal was just in flabbergasting poor taste, and left me, a lifelong fan, with a simple question: Why am I still putting up with this shit?"​

This is impossible to deny. You don't have to like it and you don't have to agree but I don't see any convincing argument against any of this.

Sure you can. He is wearing black on the outside. You can see it. I don't know what the goth comment means as I've never seen morrissey as goth in any way, certainly not in his own image, but I just took the line to be about feeling alone and depressed which is something I'm sure morrissey can relate to. Baldwin was depressed about more than being a black man in oppressive racist times like his personal relationships which is something else morrissey can relate to. As to making profit I don't really care. If a shirt company like old navy wants to put people, black people (people of any race really), who are awesome and that it respects and wants to promote on tee shirts and sell them in stores for profit I'm not against it. I just see it as a win win and would rather see those types of shirts than something stupid. Also Baldwin isnt exactly why people would be buying the shirt, morrissey is. On an aside what do black goths wear on the outside if not black. If its not to represent that they feel black inside then I'm confused. Do they wear all black for other reasons

 

[Quando quando quando]

Are you honestly this dense? It's pretty obvious why you aren't ready to "look at problems of race/gender, etc" because when we do we find that Morrissey makes a lot of statements that explicitly "set up walls between us, a feeling of difference" such as his remarks about immigration a few years back, and the same idea expressed in song previous to that. Morrissey just loves everybody apparently but loves them more if they speak English, speak it in the correct accent, and don't immigrate to his country.

What??
No Aussies, Americans and Euros, Russians and Chinese too??
What a racist!
Oh wait, no immigration at all.
Well, then it's okay I guess.
He doesn't care what anybody says anymore.
But keep on saying he is racist. It sure is an impulse for creating traffic to this site, which I don't mind.
By the way I saw some black guys and girls on tv from Liverpool.
Their scouse accent is f***ing great!
I think Moz would make an exception for them.
They would be allowed to stay.

 

[Quando quando quando]

Being concerned with "what sounds better" is your department.

Yes it is.
But that song doesn't belong to it.
Which proves your point.

 

[Advice Animals]

What??
No Aussies, Americans and Euros, Russians and Chinese too??
What a racist!
Oh wait, no immigration at all.
Well, then it's okay I guess.
He doesn't care what anybody says anymore.
But keep on saying he is racist. It sure is an impulse for creating traffic to this site, which I don't mind.
By the way I saw some black guys and girls on tv from Liverpool.
Their scouse accent is f***ing great!
I think Moz would make an exception for them.
They would be allowed to stay.

I never said he was racist. Ever.
But he has made comments about people not speaking English.
He has made comments about people speaking with a foreign accent.
He has said too many people are immigrating to England and that England is being lost because of it.
He has said that some people belong and some don't.

If you see those statements and they sound racist to you, I guess you can see why some people call him racist. But I never did.
Get a hobby. Are you in an iron lung or what?

 

[Old Mathew]

Since the very first word of this article is incorrectly used, I can't be bothered to read further.

 

[Advice Animals]

Sure you can. He is wearing black on the outside. You can see it. I don't know what the goth comment means as I've never seen morrissey as goth in any way, certainly not in his own image, but I just took the line to be about feeling alone and depressed which is something I'm sure morrissey can relate to. Baldwin was depressed about more than being a black man in oppressive racist times like his personal relationships which is something else morrissey can relate to. As to making profit I don't really care. If a shirt company like old navy wants to put people, black people (people of any race really), who are awesome and that it respects and wants to promote on tee shirts and sell them in stores for profit I'm not against it. I just see it as a win win and would rather see those types of shirts than something stupid. Also Baldwin isnt exactly why people would be buying the shirt, morrissey is. On an aside what do black goths wear on the outside if not black. If its not to represent that they feel black inside then I'm confused. Do they wear all black for other reasons

quite
I'm just glad I don't have to grade your papers.

 

[Sister I'm a Poet]

"Reverse-racism" or what I ironically called "good racism" is racism. It will exists as long as someone needs to make business dividing people. We the people are essentially stupid, of course, because we buy that s::t. If you buy the s::t there will always be someone ready to sell it. If you support black supremacy you are opening the path to white supremacy theorists, and vice-versa.

By the way, I'm purple with a touch of turquoise. Sometimes I'm yellow and blue or green and orange. As you can see, I'm a person of colors, and I don't admit people say otherwise. But I make my own colora. Nobody color-labels me without my consent. You better make your own color before someone colors you for his/her own interests.

Cultural differences are right, as long as they are not used as an excuse to mutilate female sexual organs, torture and kill bulls, subject a society with lies, etc. If you have to put half of the globe on war to keep a given culture alive, then you better make a better culture, because probably something is not good. Just an opinion.

It is all fine and good to say that you make your own color, and that you can be "purple" or "yellow" or "blue" but unfortunately, society sees the color of someone's skin and treats them differently. To deny this is to be very naive. White people have privilege. If you don't see this you are either insensitive or blind. "People of color", meaning black, brown, yellow and red people, have been historically marginalized and mistreated due to how OTHER PEOPLE see their color.

Also, I stand by my claim that "reverse-racism" is a problematic term. Here's a pretty good article discussing the issue: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_us_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97

 

[Quando quando quando]

I never said he was racist. Ever.
But he has made comments about people not speaking English.
He has made comments about people speaking with a foreign accent.
He has said too many people are immigrating to England and that England is being lost because of it.
He has said that some people belong and some don't.

If you see those statements and they sound racist to you, I guess you can see why some people call him racist. But I never did.
Get a hobby. Are you in an iron lung or what?

Okay, so you never said he was racist, only suggesting he was by implicating it.
You are bothered for other people cause other people will find the things he said racist. That is very nice of you.
I thought the T-shirt of James Baldwin was not racist.
But you know what, Moz doesn't care anymore what people call him.
I don't care anymore either to be called racist or whatever.
My hobby is collecting dust.
Only the white parts.
Do you have any idea how difficult that is in a iron long?

 

[SuedeMoz]

Morrissey has certainly said some foolish things over the years, but I've never agreed that "all reggae is vile" had to be taken in a racial context.

 

[Sister I'm a Poet]

Since the very first word of this article is incorrectly used, I can't be bothered to read further.

People must find you insufferable...

 

[Advice Animals]

Okay, so you never said he was racist, only suggesting he was by implicating it.
You are bothered for other people cause other people will find the things he said racist. That is very nice of you.
I thought the T-shirt of James Baldwin was not racist.
But you know what, Moz doesn't care anymore what people call him.
I don't care anymore either to be called racist or whatever.
My hobby is collecting dust.
Only the white parts.
Do you have any idea how difficult that is in a iron long?

1. Ketamine Sun wrote some idiotic things and I was responding to her.
2. I'm not responsible for your perception. If you see a statement of the facts as some kind of implication your problem is not with me but with the facts.
3. I don't care what you think of what I think of what Ketamine Sun thinks of what Morrissey thinks.
4. I was wondering how you type but maybe you own slaves.

 

[Anonymous]

quite
I'm just glad I don't have to grade your papers.

I paid it better attention then, if you're meaning my grammar here and not my point, as there it had a pragmatic benefit I cared somewhat about. Here I'm just typing for fun and sometimes find it very amusing. I'm also a very bad typist (especially on a touch screen)

 

[Advice Animals]

Morrissey has certainly said some foolish things over the years, but I've never agreed that "all reggae is vile" had to be taken in a racial context.

The English music press is, or was when it still existed, full of simulated outrage and tabloid drama about Morrissey, and it seems obvious to me that the way they manipulated the reggae statement and the "hang the DJ" lyric were just shameless attempts to find controversy where there was none.
On the other hand, everyone who suffered from abuse at their hands contributed to it in some way by giving them ammunition. If they wanted an easy story about Oasis they could feign shock and outrage over drug use and rude behavior. With Morrissey it was hints of nationalism or prejudice. He's partly to blame. He loaded the gun and handed it to them. All they had to do was pull the trigger.
And let's face it, "rock journalist" is not really the pinnacle when it comes to covering current events.
"Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read."
Frank Zappa

 

[Anonymous]

this is one of the most worstest threads ever...and there've been some doozies.

 

[Anonymous]

It is all fine and good to say that you make your own color, and that you can be "purple" or "yellow" or "blue" but unfortunately, society sees the color of someone's skin and treats them differently. To deny this is to be very naive. White people have privilege. If you don't see this you are either insensitive or blind. "People of color", meaning black, brown, yellow and red people, have been historically marginalized and mistreated due to how OTHER PEOPLE see their color.

Also, I stand by my claim that "reverse-racism" is a problematic term. Here's a pretty good article discussing the issue: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_us_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97

White people have privilege? What is "white" people? You are totally naïf, not me. Maybe rich people have privileges. Also, I don't agree with that article. Articles like that produce monsters that thrive on racism, so they fuel the hate. I'm against feeding the beast, mainly because that beast doesn't feed me. I'm vegan.

 

[Quando quando quando]

1. Ketamine Sun wrote some idiotic things and I was responding to her.
2. I'm not responsible for your perception. If you see a statement of the facts as some kind of implication your problem is not with me but with the facts.
3. I don't care what you think of what I think of what Ketamine Sun thinks of what Morrissey thinks.
4. I was wondering how you type but maybe you own slaves.

About point 4. The idea might be tempting to own some slaves and of course I would treat them very good but it is humiliating and morally wrong to treat human beings like that.
Well, at least I was brought up with that idea.
And I never changed my mind about that.
I was only joking. And I know it is all very sensitive and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
At the same time I think black people are sick to death (well, I would be) about being treated with the disdain and morally superior attitude of the liberal whites. They don't trust that.
I think they rather deal with the diehard racists cause they have experience with them and it is much easier to fight them.
Cheers

 

[The Wild Turkey]

Morrissey was the only one to stick up for The Wild Turkey. Not Bryan Ferry. Not the rascal Johnny Rotten. Not Gladys Knight or one single Pip. Only Morrissey said "the Turkey you festively slice is murder".
Do you really think The Wild Turkey is even gonna read what this crybaby has to say?