Big Issue / Robin Ince: "You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?" (April 30, 2024)

You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?

You can grow up to be Morrissey. Or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr

Johnny Marr has become the keeper of The Smiths flame, proof to their younger fans that going politically skew-whiff isn't inevitable.

www.bigissue.com

'Usual' article.
FWD.

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Robin Ince's Bibliomaniac book advertised in the above Big Issue contains the following Morrissey mentions:

On the way to Chorlton I pass the Southern Cemetery, inspiration for The Smiths’ ‘Cemetry Gates’, in which Morrissey recalled the ‘dreaded sunny day’ when he would walk around the memorials and slabs with his friend, the artist Linder Sterling, quoting Keats and Yeats and Oscar Wilde.

Richard also appeared on the page on which I first opened Morrissey’s autobiography, ‘and then Richard Boon said something very unhelpful’. Compared to many others, he survived Morrissey’s book unscathed.

I am surrounded by paintings of gardens, so I use this as the spur to talk about nature, chimpanzees and the psychological advantages of looking at acorns and oak trees. I overrun (with permission) and then take questions, which include ‘Do you meditate?’ No. I can’t shut this grey matter up. And ‘Who would win in a fight – Alan Moore or Morrissey?’ Alan Moore would both refuse to fight and at the same time mentally crush Morrissey, so he would be left untouched, but utterly vanquished on the canvas.

 

[Redacted]

As much as i support Morrissey's right to free speech and do not think he's racist. He hasn't done himself any favours with his "why should i respond, or why should i have to defend myself" comments.

Sadly most people don't read beneath the headlines, they're too lazy or thick to do that. I've lost count of the people i've spoken to, at other bands gigs or at work etc who are into alt music that "used to like Morrissey, before he became racist".

Is there a way back for Morrissey..... No i don't think so. But, my view isn't just based on what others perceive him to be. Where he's taken his music, which moreso live sounds almost karaoke (bar the singing of course, which is still great), the constant negativity in his lyrics, his image, the garbage artwork, the distance he's put between himself and us fans etc...... even the letter to Marr...... cringe

Unless he reaches out to Marr, sadly he's finished

His music about his conspiracy theories is definitely not helping

 

[Redacted]

Misheard lyrics are common, and often comical. Those who fault Morrissey's politics rarely state their own. That'd be asking for it.

Johnny is pretty open about his politics and I can think of loads of musicians who are

 

[The Alchemist]

Morrissey's view of all this will undoubtedly be romantically tinged. He knows very well about the life of Keats - one whose name was writ in water....

He need not concern himself with the mindless drivel of the unimaginative. He's beyond all of that.

 

[Orange Crush]

Johnny is pretty open about his politics and I can think of loads of musicians who are

Yeah, it must be great to be a multi millionaire liberal leftie. Try living in the real world instead of a shell.

 

[SixteenClumsyShy]

Morrissey all the way. For life.

 

[DreamingofStew]

The article is completely manichaean and complacent, and, moreover, entirely predictable in view of the current consensus in the media, and so on. It doesn't even rise to the level of middle-brow. I'm surprised that they are still using humans for this level of 'content'. Just feed in "write an article critical of Morrissey in typical, post-literate bien-pensant style" to Chat-GPT and you can spew out a thousand of these things in a few minutes. Come to think of it ... Is Robin Ince a real name?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

yeah and be quite boring and stick to the middle ground and work with inferior artists just to be part of the in-crowd,its all a bit safe.
this isnt just for john martin maher its for most people in music these days,there is no such thing as rock these days,these days there is pop and there is a bit heavier pop,when was the last time a music star did anything out of the ordinary which made the papers,at least hotels can be safe in the knowledge that when a rock band rolls into town their tv will still be on the wall in the morning and not in the street,think we all miss those days.

yeah, but it’s not as much fun throwing a flat screen TV out the window.

 

[DreamingofStew]

Well yes. He's never going to get much in the way of coverage / airplay via the BBC / music press / broadsheets unless in some way he addresses the perception that has (fairly or unfairly) grown around him.

You may be right that "most" ordinary people would agree with him - but then it's hard to know exactly they'd be agreeing (or not) with, since he's never been clear about it himself. If he wants to make the case, for example, that Britain is being over-run by immigration, and if most ordinary Brits (as I think you're implying) would back him on that, then surely it would be better for him to just come out and say it, and be prepared to defend his argument - rather than just dropping little bombs here and there and then running away and claiming persecution.

I remain a huge fan, I just genuinely don't understand his strategy with this stuff. ("Strategy" may be totally the wrong word here.)

I agree with this. I mean, even a cuddly mainstream character like Bill Maher is talking straight on this subject, so why not Morrissey?:



I think the fact is that in the internet age, and with other developments of recent decades, being quotable in a sub-Wildean way is not good enough and we begin to see that our gnomic pop stars just are not good at sustained argument. This is not surprising. It's not really their job. But we were beginning to think, back in the day, that these people were deep thinkers and well-informed. That's become part of our admiration for them. We can still admire them while realising a songwriter is not Hannah Arendt, or unlikely to be, but I am not sure that's generally sunk in yet.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't comment, of course, but I think Morrissey's 'throw missile and duck' tactic shows that the kind of social commentary we are used to from pop hasn't really adapted to the current age -- or it's one example of that.

 

[Redacted]

Yeah, it must be great to be a multi millionaire liberal leftie. Try living in the real world instead of a shell.

I am not a fan of liberals or the left, I was just making the point that people are indeed open about their politics. Bryan Ferry is conservative, it's not a secret, it works both ways. Johnny Ramone was also a conservative.

 

[Orange Crush]

I am not a fan of liberals or the left, I was just making the point that people are indeed open about their politics. Bryan Ferry is conservative, it's not a secret, it works both ways. Johnny Ramone was also a conservative.

Ok, understood. I think my point was, 'it's easier (safer) to hold certain political views'. I think some don't have the balls, especially nowadays, to say anything too troublesome (even if they agree with said things a little bit). I don't blame them, but it's not wise to think all pc / woke folk are truly totally pc / woke. I think they just keep quiet.

 

[Redacted]

Ok, understood. I think my point was, 'it's easier (safer) to hold certain political views'. I think some don't have the balls, especially nowadays, to say anything too troublesome (even if they agree with said things a little bit). I don't blame them, but it's not wise to think all pc / woke folk are truly totally pc / woke. I think they just keep quiet.

I do agree with you that it's 'safer' to hold certain political views. Since this is about musicians, I can recall when Donald Trump got elected and certain musicians on Facebook were saying they were going to check the profiles of their Facebook friends, which are mostly fans, and unfriend anyone who was not basically a lefty. It was completely obnoxious and then they just complained about him all the time as if they were trying to 'prove' how much they hated him (and now thinking about it, I don't think it's different than Morrissey saying he would push a button and kill Trump if her could, so he's not really exempt). So, I think that sort of fits in to what you are saying, that it's easier to hold views or say you hold views which are more accepted by certain vocal and sometimes violent segments of society. I don't know where you are, but the left have been pretty violent here in the US and people will pretend to be super left out of fear. The people I know on the right are basically better people and would be the ones to have your back in a heartbeat, if needed.

 

[Girlmostlikely]

Ugh.

What Morrissey needs to do is explain to people that he's a single issue (non) voter.

What would you would have to do is admit that he should've been a little more careful with where he threw his support and thought it through a little more. I doubt this will happen.

 

[marred]

Right-wing political parties and independents are the only hope the West and the US have in saving what's left of western society. Never bow down to the madness. Ever.

That's because the left wants to burn it all down.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

I do agree with you that it's 'safer' to hold certain political views. Since this is about musicians, I can recall when Donald Trump got elected and certain musicians on Facebook were saying they were going to check the profiles of their Facebook friends, which are mostly fans, and unfriend anyone who was not basically a lefty. It was completely obnoxious and then they just complained about him all the time as if they were trying to 'prove' how much they hated him (and now thinking about it, I don't think it's different than Morrissey saying he would push a button and kill Trump if her could, so he's not really exempt). So, I think that sort of fits in to what you are saying, that it's easier to hold views or say you hold views which are more accepted by certain vocal and sometimes violent segments of society. I don't know where you are, but the left have been pretty violent here in the US and people will pretend to be super left out of fear. The people I know on the right are basically better people and would be the ones to have your back in a heartbeat, if needed.

Ironically....no wars under Trump....the only disaster was Covid which affected everyone and most countries were hopeless in trying to deal with it.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

I agree with this. I mean, even a cuddly mainstream character like Bill Maher is talking straight on this subject, so why not Morrissey?:



I think the fact is that in the internet age, and with other developments of recent decades, being quotable in a sub-Wildean way is not good enough and we begin to see that our gnomic pop stars just are not good at sustained argument. This is not surprising. It's not really their job. But we were beginning to think, back in the day, that these people were deep thinkers and well-informed. That's become part of our admiration for them. We can still admire them while realising a songwriter is not Hannah Arendt, or unlikely to be, but I am not sure that's generally sunk in yet.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't comment, of course, but I think Morrissey's 'throw missile and duck' tactic shows that the kind of social commentary we are used to from pop hasn't really adapted to the current age -- or it's one example of that.

Based.

 

[Bobby J]

I am a native speaker and I thought it was sun and air and I also thought 'of a shyness that is criminally vulgar' was 'I've a shyness that is criminally vulgar'. I am not even going to try to explain how it made sense in my head.

But it's a little confusing, because son and heir mean the same thing, if you are a son or an offspring, you are also an heir unless otherwise specified, like in a line of succession or regarding inheritances

"The son shines out of our behinds" ?

 

[gordyboy9]

yeah, but it’s not as much fun throwing a flat screen TV out the window.

true,tvs are that big these days they would hardly fit through the window.
iv stayed in hotels were the windows dont even open.

 

[gordyboy9]

Ironically....no wars under Trump....the only disaster was Covid which affected everyone and most countries were hopeless in trying to deal with it.

he made the sales of bleach go through the roof after his statement,donald trumpton what can you say.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

he made the sales of bleach go through the roof after his statement,donald trumpton what can you say.

Not one of his best moments........there again...the official vaccine, which i took, killed or maimed an awful lot of people and AstraZeneca admitted it this week.

 

[Les Tameside]

Ironically....no wars under Trump....the only disaster was Covid which affected everyone and most countries were hopeless in trying to deal with it.

The US (and the UK) are involved in the Saudi-Yemen war, the latest round of which began in 2015. The US was also fighting in Afghanistan up until 2020.