Morrissey Central "DAVID VANCE" (June 17, 2023)

DAVID VANCE

DAVID VANCE - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - DAVID VANCE

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

Bonfire of the Nottingham Teenagers. | David Vance Podcast

After the savage killing of teenagers at the Manchester arena in 2017, Morrissey wrote a song called "Bonfire of the Teenagers" in which he decried the state permitted reaction to that horror. This past week has seem more of this weak manicured public response - is this a bonfire of the...

vancedavidatw.podbean.com

 

[Crisstti]

Fewer hardcore fans these days on the main fan website doesn't necessarily reflect fewer fans in real life. It could just mean people get tired of loafing oafs spouting incontinent poison. Certainly, you have the capacity to be charming and informative, but sooner or later the belligerent glibness unfailingly resurfaces, mowing down all around because of some old grievance held, but also, it's plain, for the pleasure you take at making others feel uncomfortable and depriving them of harmless pleasure. You will not change and you will not be nice.

Too funny then, to be pushing ethics on anyone when, if one came up and shook your hand, you'd give it a kick in the arse, shove it in the gutter and walk away howling with demonic laughter. Don't hurt Morrissey, and don't hurt Malarkey.
or else.

Yes, I'm sure a lot of fans are put off by the negativity here.
I, for one, actually made this account over ten years ago. Was put off by the hostility towards Morrissey and left, mainly forgot about it then until this year.

 

[Anonymous]

I remember Tommy Vance

Tommy Vance had the best voice on radio - I can still hear it in my head decades later. Any relation to this dude?

 

[overthemoors]

do people honestly believe that morrissey doesn't approve stuff that goes on the site?

My thoughts exactly - people seem to use this notion as a twisted coping mechanism of sorts.
Morrissey has been making questionable choices for a while now, why not just face the truth?..

 

[BrummieBoy]

Fewer hardcore fans these days on the main fan website doesn't necessarily reflect fewer fans in real life. It could just mean people get tired of loafing oafs spouting incontinent poison. Certainly, you have the capacity to be charming and informative, but sooner or later the belligerent glibness unfailingly resurfaces, mowing down all around because of some old grievance held, but also, it's plain, for the pleasure you take at making others feel uncomfortable and depriving them of harmless pleasure. You will not change and you will not be nice.

Too funny then, to be pushing ethics on anyone when, if one came up and shook your hand, you'd give it a kick in the arse, shove it in the gutter and walk away howling with demonic laughter. Don't hurt Morrissey, and don't hurt Malarkey.
or else.

You have not addressed the issues I've raised regarding Morrissey amplifying David Vance - another example of Morrissey's selective 'outrage' about terrorism in Manchester - because you are incapable of defending his absurd 'terror trolling' over decades.

Given your transparent attempt to divert the discussion I'm hardly likely to take a lecture on ethics from you or accept your feeble ad hominen floridities.

The anger you project on to me is the anger you feel about the fact I have, yet again, effortlessly demolished the mediocrity that is Morrissey.

I bear no ill will towards anyone but I do not suffer fools and it's immaterial to me whether fools present themselves as 'messianic' pop culture figures or their self-appointed online hagiographers.

The Cult Of The Crank-Fraud Morrissey is now reduced to making ever more bizarre defences of their Pop Idol in a doomed attempt to ignore, deflect or demonise his critics. The straw man outburst within your reply is one such psychological coping strategy. Others include positing outlandish retrospective analyses which purport to evidence a media conspiracy theory alleging that Morrissey's current status as a 'progressive pariah' is, at root, caused by supposed homophobic press coverage of 'Madstock' in 1992!

You conclude your vapid emotional ventilation with a warning that I desist from debunking your cultic belief system and its more zealous adherents 'or else'...what, exactly?

Why do you reference Muhammad Ali pictorialy?

Are you challenging me to a boxing match? Metaphorically or actually?

Perhaps as support act for the planned cage fight between Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk?

If so, before I accept and enter boot camp please provide details of your sex, age, weight and tournament-bout history.

As you have referenced The Greatest I assume you would be classed in 'heavyweight' category but...that might be because you are a morbidly obese woman who struggles to push a shopping trolley around Blanchardstown Mall...

I am a trained boxer and that imposes a moral code on me. Therefore I don't get in the ring to fight the disabled, whether online or IRL, and it's irrelevant if their disabilities arise from physical, emotional or mental health issues. It would be unmanly and undignified to do so.

Nobody is obligated to interact with me here or anywhere else. Yet you and those you claim to protect via threatening me choose to do so. Why do you do that when you could all simply choose to mute or block me?

Claiming to be victimised by my corruscating prose is a bit silly when you have both successfully ignored me for years in hopes I'd 'go away'. Which I do. For long periods of time. I'm about to instigate another lengthy sabbatical from this hateful online crèche and clearly stated that in the opening comment to which you have replied. So you thought you'd sneak in an insulting tirade and, risibly imagine you have power to 'assert your authority' by rebuking me? How's that working out?



https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/david-vance-june-17-2023.151121/page-17#post-1987526852

Finally, I note your 'poetic' formatting of your last sentence. ...unfortunately it is grammatically incoherent. Your use of the word 'one' is confused, used either to reference disembodied ethical principles or a singular disembodied hand? You subsequently refer to this 'one' as 'it'. Did you mean to use 'one' to refer to a generic, non-gendered person? In which case the subsequent wording should surely refer to 'them' or 'they', not 'it'? Please feel free to edit your comment to provide clarity. Then get lost...Don't bore me with anymore of your inane ripostes. Too funny indeed...

Kind regards

BrummieBoy

 

[BrummieBoy]

A final observation on this David Vance and Morrissey 'situation'.

Any future attempt by Morrissey to assert 'plausible deniability' in relation to content posted on 'Morrissey Central' is doomed because it is a portal that offers 'Messages From Morrissey' that are exclusive to that site. It would be amusing to observe him wriggle, explaining how he remained ignorant to other dubious content being posted there. He's still 'reputationally responsible even if he later feigns ignorance.

The act of amplifying David Vance allows alt-right figures to claim kinship and tacit endorsement. Morrissey alone is responsible for this.

Should an interview with Paul Joseph Watson emerge that would escalate tensions within the residual 'progressive' fanbase and offer amusing support to a conspiracist 'great replacement theory' suggesting Morrissey is seeking to replace his 'indigenous progressive' fanbase with an 'alt-right invasion'.

Vigorously challenging Morrissey's decisions to allow himself to be associated with questionable content doesn't preclude others from continuing to enjoy his music and those who angrily rebuke such critics and blame them for ruining their pleasure at being a 'Morrissey fan' are acting like toddlers in a tantrum.

Nick Cave has provided a useful synopsis of rational responses to the 'behavioural provocations' which Morrissey is helplessly addicted to making, despite the consequntial reputational damage he earns as his reward.

Morrissey isn't 'cancelled'. He's just regarded as a cancer in the culture by many of his former admirers. He created this debacle and only he can detoxify his public image.

It's amusing to observe how those here loudly protesting what they claim is censorship and 'cancel culture' directed at Morrissey detour to attempt to censor and 'cancel' my latest trenchant debunking of Morrissey's 'terror trolling' - by directing ad hominen and straw man arguments towards me whilst ineptly deploying narcissistic DARVO-derived attempts to gaslight this thread discussion and posit themselves as victims.

What's incredibly revealing is the fact that despite Morrissey 'posing as an intellectual', there are very few 'fans' who are prepared to engage in an intelligent discussion about his ideas. Equally illuminating is the spectacle of Morrissey’s retreat from interviews with anybody intelligent enough to robustly challenge him since the career nadir 'Der Spiegel' humiliation.

It's entirely valid to acknowledge Morrissey's talents as a singer and lyricist whilst demolishing his claims to be an 'intelligent pop star', one whose inconsequential ruminations on terrorist attacks are worthy of nothing more than being summarily dismissed as attention seeking 'terror trolling' for publicity purposes.

I'm sure Nick Cave would make an interesting debate opponent, just as I'm sure Morrissey would disintegrate and 'go balls deep DARVO' as soon as his flimsy ideas were subject to scrutiny by anyone with even basic critical thinking skills, by anyone capable of interrogating what Nick Cave describes as "people (who) fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

Kind regards

BrummieBoy

'Darvo stands for ‘deny, attack and reverse victim and offender’, and is a common tactic of emotional abusers. The Guyliner explains how it's become a popular technique online too'

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/darvo-meaning

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed...Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on..."


https://pitchfork.com/news/nick-cav...nds-his-music-and-free-speech-in-open-letter/

 

[Troubled-Joe]

A final observation on this David Vance and Morrissey 'situation'.

Any future attempt by Morrissey to assert 'plausible deniability' in relation to content posted on 'Morrissey Central' is doomed because it is a portal that offers 'Messages From Morrissey' that are exclusive to that site. It would be amusing to observe him wriggle, explaining how he remained ignorant to other dubious content being posted there. He's still 'reputationally responsible even if he later feigns ignorance.

The act of amplifying David Vance allows alt-right figures to claim kinship and tacit endorsement. Morrissey alone is responsible for this.

Should an interview with Paul Joseph Watson emerge that would escalate tensions within the residual 'progressive' fanbase and offer amusing support to a conspiracist 'great replacement theory' suggesting Morrissey is seeking to replace his 'indigenous progressive' fanbase with an 'alt-right invasion'.

Vigorously challenging Morrissey's decisions to allow himself to be associated with questionable content doesn't preclude others from continuing to enjoy his music and those who angrily rebuke such critics and blame them for ruining their pleasure at being a 'Morrissey fan' are acting like toddlers in a tantrum.

Nick Cave has provided a useful synopsis of rational responses to the 'behavioural provocations' which Morrissey is helplessly addicted to making, despite the consequntial reputational damage he earns as his reward.

Morrissey isn't 'cancelled'. He's just regarded as a cancer in the culture by many of his former admirers. He created this debacle and only he can detoxify his public image.

It's amusing to observe how those here loudly protesting what they claim is censorship and 'cancel culture' directed at Morrissey detour to attempt to censor and 'cancel' my latest trenchant debunking of Morrissey's 'terror trolling' by directing ad hominen and straw man arguments towards me whilst ineptly deploying narcissistic DARVO-derived attempts to gaslight this thread discussion and posit themselves as victims.

What's incredibly revealing is the fact that despite Morrissey 'posing as an intellectual', there are very few 'fans' who are prepared to engage in an intelligent discussion about his ideas. Equally illuminating is the spectacle of Morrissey’s retreat from interviews with anybody intelligent enough to robustly challenge him since the career nadir 'Der Spiegel' humiliation.

It's entirely valid to acknowledge Morrissey's talents as a singer and lyricist whilst demolishing his claims to be an 'intelligent pop star', one whose inconsequential ruminations on terrorist attacks are worthy of nothing more than being summarily dismissed as attention seeking 'terror trolling' for publicity purposes.

I'm sure Nick Cave would make an interesting debate opponent, just as I'm sure Morrissey would disintegrate and 'go balls deep DARVO' as soon as his flimsy ideas were subject to scrutiny by anyone with even basic critical thinking skills, by anyone capable of interrogating what Nick Cave describes as "people (who) fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

Kind regards

BrummieBoy

'Darvo stands for ‘deny, attack and reverse victim and offender’, and is a common tactic of emotional abusers. The Guyliner explains how it's become a popular technique online too'

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/darvo-meaning

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed...Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on..."


https://pitchfork.com/news/nick-cav...nds-his-music-and-free-speech-in-open-letter/

I don't think you would ever have Morrissey attempting to deny the posts are from him, it's others who are doing that.

Lets just assume it's either A) Morrissey or B) Approved by Morrissey - anything else is just pie in the sky conspiracy theory

 

[fuckfase]

Great topic. Great podcast. I love Morrissey and his clear, rational mind. He’s never changed. The world around him has. The biggest irony here is that this song is literally about all of you here that are melting down. Yet, here you are.

 

[Frank Jobsworth]

Great topic. Great podcast. I love Morrissey and his clear, rational mind. He’s never changed. The world around him has. The biggest irony here is that this song is literally about all of you here that are melting down. Yet, here you are.

Bonfire is all very negative, why didn't he celebrate the 500% increase in hate crimes that followed the atrocity instead. That's what the cheesy Don't look back in anger stuff was about, what does he want people to do?

One clearly bothers him more than the other.

 

[Crisstti]

My thoughts exactly - people seem to use this notion as a twisted coping mechanism of sorts.
Morrissey has been making questionable choices for a while now, why not just face the truth?..

"Questionable"?

 

[Crisstti]

Bonfire is all very negative, why didn't he celebrate the 500% increase in hate crimes that followed the atrocity instead. That's what the cheesy Don't look back in anger stuff was about, what does he want people to do?

One clearly bothers him more than the other.

Would the bombing itself be a hate crime?

 

[Troubled-Joe]

Would the bombing itself be a hate crime?

Nah Hate crime is not acknowledging someone on twitter identifies as a Cauliflower.

That's when you have the Police at your door, but God forbid you get burgled cos they'll be nowhere to be seen.

 

[Mozzer1980]

Somebody tell David something went wrong

 

[MILKISMURDER]

Who exactly are The British?

Picts? Celts? Romans? Anglo-Saxons?

I agree that this paragraph could be weaponised by the Open Borders zealots but it does raise an issue that is pertinent to this thread:

When do people stop being migrants?

Salman Abedi was born in Manchester.

Morrissey is 2nd Gen Anglo-Irish. So am I. Are we 'indigenous' yet? Are my children? If not, how many generations does it take to transmogrify ftom 'migrant' to 'indigenous'?

Is David Vance 'indigenous' to Ireland? I know a few AVFC-Celtic afficionados who'd insist he's as much an interloper as the bulk of Israeli citizens. They'd castigate him as 'plantation spawn' whilst waving Palestinian flags around at Roger Waters gigs.

Can you see how 'problematic' this all is? And how casually slipshod and inflammatory the lyrics to 'Bonfire Of Teenagers' might appear to many? Especially executives at global Music corporations?

I wonder if David Vance would accept the legitimacy of Morrissey's parents (and mine) moving to England as economic refugees in the 1950s-60s...


Kind regards

BrummieBoy

Fine, accept a nebulous, shifting idea of what constitutes an indigenous group but don’t have a double standard. Afrikaaners AND Bantus colonised South Africa and Maoris too are a mixture of tribes that arrived by boats later than what we now term the British. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530134-300-ancient-invaders-transformed-britain-but-not-its-dna/

 

[Mozzer1980]

Hey David, ask Putin if he's ok NOW !!!

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

David Vance? The crackpot right-wing f***-knuckle too racist for UKIP? And Morrissey sought out an utter racist conspiracy goon and saw fit to post it on his own site?

Here we go again.

You thought he'd changed?

You were wrong.

Go and listen to some Billy Bragg records.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Fine, accept a nebulous, shifting idea of what constitutes an indigenous group but don’t have a double standard. Afrikaaners AND Bantus colonised South Africa and Maoris too are a mixture of tribes that arrived by boats later than what we now term the British. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530134-300-ancient-invaders-transformed-britain-but-not-its-dna/

What we now term the British? I think that term has been around quite a while.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

I wouldn’t have a problem with him repeatedly foaming at the mouth about immigrants murdering people if he’d occasionally have shown some sympathy for genuine asylum seekers fleeing persecution and/or dying in their hundreds when boats go down.

Because you were born in a shi*hole doesn't give you the right to enter a country illegally.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Maybe, maybe not. But it’s Morrissey you should be angry with. It’s hard to argue he’s not lost the plot when he shares shit from this clown

This is a fan site.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

You have not addressed the issues I've raised regarding Morrissey amplifying David Vance - another example of Morrissey's selective 'outrage' about terrorism in Manchester - because you are incapable of defending his absurd 'terror trolling' over decades.

Given your transparent attempt to divert the discussion I'm hardly likely to take a lecture on ethics from you or accept your feeble ad hominen floridities.

The anger you project on to me is the anger you feel about the fact I have, yet again, effortlessly demolished the mediocrity that is Morrissey.

I bear no ill will towards anyone but I do not suffer fools and it's immaterial to me whether fools present themselves as 'messianic' pop culture figures or their self-appointed online hagiographers.

The Cult Of The Crank-Fraud Morrissey is now reduced to making ever more bizarre defences of their Pop Idol in a doomed attempt to ignore, deflect or demonise his critics. The straw man outburst within your reply is one such psychological coping strategy. Others include positing outlandish retrospective analyses which purport to evidence a media conspiracy theory alleging that Morrissey's current status as a 'progressive pariah' is, at root, caused by supposed homophobic press coverage of 'Madstock' in 1992!

You conclude your vapid emotional ventilation with a warning that I desist from debunking your cultic belief system and its more zealous adherents 'or else'...what, exactly?

Why do you reference Muhammad Ali pictorialy?

Are you challenging me to a boxing match? Metaphorically or actually?

Perhaps as support act for the planned cage fight between Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk?

If so, before I accept and enter boot camp please provide details of your sex, age, weight and tournament-bout history.

As you have referenced The Greatest I assume you would be classed in 'heavyweight' category but...that might be because you are a morbidly obese woman who struggles to push a shopping trolley around Blanchardstown Mall...

I am a trained boxer and that imposes a moral code on me. Therefore I don't get in the ring to fight the disabled, whether online or IRL, and it's irrelevant if their disabilities arise from physical, emotional or mental health issues. It would be unmanly and undignified to do so.

Nobody is obligated to interact with me here or anywhere else. Yet you and those you claim to protect via threatening me choose to do so. Why do you do that when you could all simply choose to mute or block me?

Claiming to be victimised by my corruscating prose is a bit silly when you have both successfully ignored me for years in hopes I'd 'go away'. Which I do. For long periods of time. I'm about to instigate another lengthy sabbatical from this hateful online crèche and clearly stated that in the opening comment to which you have replied. So you thought you'd sneak in an insulting tirade and, risibly imagine you have power to 'assert your authority' by rebuking me? How's that working out?



https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/david-vance-june-17-2023.151121/page-17#post-1987526852

Finally, I note your 'poetic' formatting of your last sentence. ...unfortunately it is grammatically incoherent. Your use of the word 'one' is confused, used either to reference disembodied ethical principles or a singular disembodied hand? You subsequently refer to this 'one' as 'it'. Did you mean to use 'one' to refer to a generic, non-gendered person? In which case the subsequent wording should surely refer to 'them' or 'they', not 'it'? Please feel free to edit your comment to provide clarity. Then get lost...Don't bore me with anymore of your inane ripostes. Too funny indeed...

Kind regards

BrummieBoy

You sound really tedious.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Bonfire is all very negative, why didn't he celebrate the 500% increase in hate crimes that followed the atrocity instead. That's what the cheesy Don't look back in anger stuff was about, what does he want people to do?

One clearly bothers him more than the other.

A Morrissey terrorist apologist fan. You couldn't make it up.